[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

To properly, adequately, and fully explain how a turbo works would take a book. No one person can fully explain how it works in a page on a forum. Its a very vague explanation. Does not a turbo mix exhaust gases with outside air which happens to be about 25% oxygen? If you say no to that then you have NO idea how they work. Yes I may have missed a ton of info explaining how they work but so have you in all your posts. The info is insurmountable...

It's also a book you CLEARLY have not read yourself. NO, a turbocharger does NOT mix any exhaust gas with the outside air. The hot side (turbine) and the cold side (compressor) are completely independent of each other except for a solid, oil-cooled&lubed shaft on bearings which connects the wheels on each side. 100% of the exhaust gas that enters the exhaust housing leaves through the exhaust pipe. You'll find that, and much more newbie info on turbocharging here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo4.htm

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Dont you need air to make boost(pressure)? So how can one thing that is essential be an additive and the other can not? Let me put this to you in laymans terms. You have a C17 which is equipped with 4 PW-100 pratt and whittney turbine engines. Now a turbine engine acts much like as a turbine used in a car. There are very many similarities and a few obvious differences. Now each PW-100 produces 41,000pds of thrust with a bypass ratio of 5.9:1 and overall pressure ratio of 30.8:1. So you mean to tell me that even though one turbine engine produces 41,000pds of thrust and you have 4 of them you only get 41,000pds of thrust total? Try telling that to my aerospace propulsion professor...

Whether you're talking about 328,000pds of thrust from four PW-100's, or 40psi on a stock 2jz-gte from its twin turbos, the result is the same...it's a goal that's beyond the capabilities of those devices.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Heres another example. Take 2 fire hoses at the same pressure rate releasing the same fluid into a pool. Now just take one fire hose at the same pressure as the other 2 with the same fluid that is filling a separate but equal sized pool. Now tell me what pool will be filled with more water after the same time has passed? The answer is obvious. Now the water in the pool represents the air in the cylinders negated by pressure. It is because you have more than one hose(aka turbine) which adds to the pressure and the volume of water(aka air) that is entering the cylinders. One hose's pressure isnt the same as 2 equal hoses's pressure. Thats like saying My 2 supersoaker 1000's are the same as your 1 supersoaker 1000...

No it's not. You're trying to say that two supersoaker 1000's (or two fire hose PUMPs) can flow twice as much water by pumping them at twice their optimal efficiency rate. Unfortunately that's not true and neither is producing 40psi from oem 2jz-gte twins.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Again this is a whole point of a debate. You cant just say your point and then be like"ok now that ive said it bow down to me and back off." As much as you would like this to happen its not going to especially when you are wrong. hehe I know I am a stinker aint I? ...

I agree that you're stubborn. Imho you're also severely underinformed about turbocharging, which imho makes your conclusions about what's capable with a stock 2jz-gte and its oem twin turbos boarderline delusional.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Now see that was nice. Keep that up...

If the world was filled with closed-minded know-it-alls like you, I'm not sure I would. Fortunately, most other folks actually appreciate it when an experienced resource shares facts and hard-earned knowledge.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...You can get the most power from cam tuning. If you can get a cam that is specifically designed for boost which means the longest duration possible thats where you can get the most airflow. Angle cut valves have their effect when the valve is shut. IMO it is a great mod to have. It has even been known to create a small but noticeable venturi effect within the chambers for better and easier combustion...

First of all, the oem 2jz-gte cams ARE already designed for boost. Secondly, the oem 2jz-gte valves and valve seats ARE already angle-cut. Lastly, whether you put 256, 264, 272 or 280 degree cams on the 2jz-gte head, you're still not going to get 650rwhp out of a stock 2jz-gte with stock twins alone, on any octane of regular or racing gasoline. Not in a million years.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...First off nothing is impossible when it comes to motors and power. If you have the money you can make a ford pinto do 9's in the quarter mile. Trust me I have seen it...

I agree with you on this one point BUT you said that a specific goal was attainable with a VERY tight set of conditions. With those conditions (650rwhp, oem 2jz-gte, stock bottom end, stock twins, no nos, gasoline), you've painted yourself into a corner - it just can't be done.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Hey did we just not have a talk about the flaming? If you want to carry on flaming people you will get nowhere with your discussions. Again please try to have a formidable discussion with me. Thank you...

Pig-headed=stubborn. It's a common definition...and if the shoe fits, wear it.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Just because it hasnt been done before doesnt mean it cant be. Before the wright brothers invented the airplane people thought that flying was impossible. Boy where they wrong werent they? So just becasue you dont know of its existance doesnt mean it cant be done...

The Wright brothers weren't constrained in their problem to try to force propellors that were designed to be most efficient producing 20 pounds of thrust if they needed 40...being engineers, they'd have known that spinning that propellor twice as fast won't produce twice the thrust. Again, you've painted yourself into a corner with this problem. An oem 2jz-gte's oem twins just won't and can't feasibly produce 40psi of useable & reliable boost. With those oem twins as the only horsepower adder, you'll never get 650rwhp out of a stock 2jz-gte either.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...IN most forums flaming isnt tolerated period. You have made quite a debut here as someone who flames. The mods and everyone else is watching you. I on the other hand have been here awhile. I have admitted when I was wrong and I have had plenty of great discussions and debates with people. If I was full of BS and grandeur rhetoric I would have been gone long ago.

My posts are not intended as flames. They're intended to accurately and efficiently call out the misinformation you're attempting to spread. I encourage the scrutiny and involvement of the mods on this thread and any/all of my posts. I'd much rather be banned doing what I can to help the Supra community by calling out your misinformation ... than compromise my own integrity by pretending you didn't just lie about a Supra being able to make 650rwhp on stock twins and a stock block.

If the mods are the reasonable, knowledgeable people (and I assume they are), you're at a much greater risk of being warned if you don't come clean here.

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...Secondly, because of that I havent led anyone down any wrong path. Maybe for cost efficiency I have,...

FINALLY a glimmer of the REAL truth comes out!

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

...but if it was up to me I would just upgrade to one big turbo application...

That's not what you said. You said a '97 mkiv Supra Turbo, using it's oem twin turbos and a stock 2jz-gte block, "can easily squeeze out 650rwhp". In the quote above, it appears that you've admitted that, for all you know for sure, you were completely wrong when you stated that rwhp figure. I sincerely hope this means that we can end our ""formidable discussion"" now.