[SKILMATIC]

It's not pessimistic, it's realistic. The inventor of the a-bomb wasn't on the same type of budget as someone like Evilfurby looking at maxing out the stock block, stock twins horsepower of a used Supra that he's planning to buy. For any reasonable amount of $, you're not going to make 650rwhp using the stock twins alone. In fact, I'll allow you an unreasonable amound of $. You'll never do it even if you spend $25,000.00 on the problem (not counting the cost of the car itself). Is that a reasonable budget, iyo?

Dude, no one ever said anything about cost aspects. I said it is possible to get that much. Even you should agree that it is possible. And if I had 25grand to spend on a motor and I had to use the stock twins. All I would do is max boost, racing fuel, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, standalone engine management, bore the engine out w/ stroker kit, exedy multi disc clutch, lightened flywheel with carbon pads, trd diff, better IC and piping, intercooler chiller kit, and 200shot of nitrous(wet kit). Theres your 650rwhp. Stock engine is 320 just the nitrous alone bumps it up to 520(and thats a maybe 1000dollar mod depending on where you get the kit from) I got 24 grand left. Any questions?

I'm talking about mileage on the turbos. They just don't boost as well if they've got a lot of mileage on them.

O ok thanks for clarifying that.

I've already told you. I base my data on my own work on my own MK4, my work on other Mk4's, as well as the work of the dozens and dozens of other Mk4 owners that have worked on this problem and posted their results. Now, upon what do you base your BS 650rwhp on stock block & stock twins figure? Faulty mathematics? Lol.

And your still wrong. As I have already maped it out for you.

No one is arguing with you there, but let's get back to the topic - is your assertion still that you can feasibly make 650rwhp with a stock 2jz-gte block and it's stock twin turbos?

I said the stock motor yes. Engine management, nitrous, and more boost I never said you couldnt use(show me where I said word for word that you couldnt use these things). With these things alone you can get that amount when done right. However, then you claimed that even if I could do anythign to the motor the stock twins wouldnt handle it. Which again is not true.

Prove it then! This isn't a matter of odds like rolling some dice at Las Vegas. This is a matter of how much air those two little 2jz-gte oem twins can pump. They simply can't pump enough air to produce that much horsepower. It's beyond the capability of those devices, therefore it's not improbable, it's literally impossible.

Now if we go beyond the conditions of your earlier posts and add a big single turbo or a big shot of NO2+fuel to make the horsepower, then of course it can be done. But again, on oem twins and oem block alone, there's just no way.

Bingo now someone is thinking. I never said once you couldnt use nitrous or any other means of management. Just stock block and stock twins. Anything else is a go. Now you are coming to reality. I see the dice is turning in my favor.

Yes. I'm also sure that YOU shouldn't be posting on MK4 threads, because you're completely uninformed and unqualified to answer any questions about it.

As you have already losed this debate about a mk4. You have already admitted that 650rwhp is attainable on the stock motor with stock twins with the help of nitrous which is a 1000dollar mod. Well what happened with the rest of the 24grand? I never said once you couldnt use nitrous. Thank you for debating sir. You did ok. Not bad for a newbie.

The funny thing is while I am not qualified to answer these questions you have just debacled yourself in your own debate. First you say "you need a unattainable amount of money to make 650rwhp on the stock block and stock twins" then you say "o but its attainable with nitrous which is a 1000dollar mod." Maybe you will take my advice and chose your battles much more wisely.