to swap or not to swap - Page 2

Charles Q · 04-09-2007, 05:23 AM

If you go to celicasupra.com and do some searching you'll find that a swap is not as easy as some might lead you to believe. There is a lot to do and none of it is cheap. Before you're done you could have paid for a couple of new cars. This is not a hobby for the poor or the stupid. Both are going to get burned. It's also not a job for the impatient. Know EXACTLY what to do and in what order to do it in before you spend a dime or you'll live to regret it. Doing a swap on the cheap means you have, often as not, one problem after another after the swap is done. Remember you're swapping one used car into another. If you're doing it yourself and you know what you're doing (and I mean REALLY know what you're doing not just learning as you go along) it shouldn't be too much of a problem but there are a lot of these that are started and never finished. There's a lot to do and most people just don't have the time to devote to doing it start to finish so they get started and then it just sits. They wind up losing a ton of money when they sell it half done or try to part it out to recover their money. If you're having someone do it for you you better be double sure that they have the knowledge to handle what you're asking them to do and be very clear up front and in writing as to what you want and what it's going to cost. Then double that cost. If they won't work the way you want FIND SOMEONE ELSE. If you don't the car may never get finished. There are always going to be extras and problems and delays. If you rebuild the engine to start with and buy all the related parts you need before you start you'll have a car that is unbelievable even in stock trim and it won't break down on you every other week. But you should remember that a turbo engine requires a number of other mods to the driveline, suspension and brakes. Those things should be done BEFORE you swap. Realistically - figure $10,000 plus. Can it be done for less - sure but that's about what I spent and haven't had a lick of trouble. I LOVE this car. But take it from me I knew what I wanted when I started and I was lucky enough to have someone who really knew what they were doing to do the swap for me. I'm still adding mods to this thing but after a year of driving it I am so glad I did it. It is a kick in the pants to drive but there are a lot of cars that might give you that pleasure for a lot less trouble. Just be sure what you want before you start. Hope that helps.

edelmar417 · 04-09-2007, 06:20 AM

hey, thanks a bunch on your input. this is the sort of input i needed from an outsider point of view. I still haven't decided what i want to do with the engine. i'm looking towards the engine rebuild with light mods. then really work on suspension. and i think lightening the engine parts as well would help a lot. but first, time to save money

again, thanks for your input.

Charles Q · 04-09-2007, 03:30 PM

I had a simple rebuild. Stock head with three angle valve grind and new pistons. Nothing fancy. If you know you're going over 400hp then you'll need forged pistons and stronger rods but expect to put out some $$$. Keep your power goals realistic. These are very light cars and power to weight is the key to speed. At about 400hp you begin to light up the tires every time you step on the gas in any gear and while that may sound cool now when you need a new set of tires in 3 months it gets real old.
I had a metal head gasket and ARP studs installed as these engines were prone to blown head gaskets (bhg) from the factory. Then you'll need an '85 oil pan. Most of us shop at Champion Toyota in Texas for the discounts as Toyota parts are among the most expensive in the business. You'll need a variety of gaskets and hoses too. You'll want a new oil pump. No point putting this engine in just to have it fail because you wanted to save a few bucks on an oil pump. Fuel is critical in a 7m engine. Low fuel pressure can cause the mix to lean out and there goes your new engine so I installed a mkVI fuel pump not a Walbro though many use Walbro. I dropped over a grand in new parts.
If you have a P Type then you probably have a posi rear end. These have friction disc clutches in them and most wear out after about 100,000 miles. As long as you're replacing that you might as well go trutrac but more $$$. Just keep in mind the stock parts were not set up for turbo power. Do not attempt to do this yourself. Setting up a rear end is very tricky and it's easy to burn out brand new bearings and destroy the new diff. Make sure you have a driveline shop that specializes in diffs do it NOT YOUR LOCAL MECHANIC. It's not cheap. You'll want to address the drive shaft too as the ujoints are not user servicable and you'll need a center carrier bearing. You can bolt up a W58 (the stock MKII tranny) but again it's a good idea to have it rebuilt before the swap. When you're showing off to some girl and your tranny blows you look pretty stupid.
You'll want to consider a larger radiator because the MKII rdaiator is pretty small for a turbo engine. With a new radiator you have cowl problems and you shouldn't run the a/c without a cowl. You'll want to use the 7m alternator as it puts out more amps.
A MKII with a 7mgte is very quick even in stock trim and you'll want to the swap ring and pinion out from stock (usually 4.30) to 3.73 but they're hard to find except in a yard somewhere. This will give it some drivability. With the stock r&p first and second are almost useless as you have to shift so fast.
All of this is detailed in the faq or swap sections of celicasupra.com if you just look. There are also quite a few guys in Washington who have these so you might get together with them and they'll give you some pointers. Good luck

edelmar417 · 04-09-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Q

I had a simple rebuild. Stock head with three angle valve grind and new pistons. Nothing fancy. If you know you're going over 400hp then you'll need forged pistons and stronger rods but expect to put out some $$$. Keep your power goals realistic. These are very light cars and power to weight is the key to speed. At about 400hp you begin to light up the tires every time you step on the gas in any gear and while that may sound cool now when you need a new set of tires in 3 months it gets real old.
I had a metal head gasket and ARP studs installed as these engines were prone to blown head gaskets (bhg) from the factory. Then you'll need an '85 oil pan. Most of us shop at Champion Toyota in Texas for the discounts as Toyota parts are among the most expensive in the business. You'll need a variety of gaskets and hoses too. You'll want a new oil pump. No point putting this engine in just to have it fail because you wanted to save a few bucks on an oil pump. Fuel is critical in a 7m engine. Low fuel pressure can cause the mix to lean out and there goes your new engine so I installed a mkVI fuel pump not a Walbro though many use Walbro. I dropped over a grand in new parts.
If you have a P Type then you probably have a posi rear end. These have friction disc clutches in them and most wear out after about 100,000 miles. As long as you're replacing that you might as well go trutrac but more $$$. Just keep in mind the stock parts were not set up for turbo power. Do not attempt to do this yourself. Setting up a rear end is very tricky and it's easy to burn out brand new bearings and destroy the new diff. Make sure you have a driveline shop that specializes in diffs do it NOT YOUR LOCAL MECHANIC. It's not cheap. You'll want to address the drive shaft too as the ujoints are not user servicable and you'll need a center carrier bearing. You can bolt up a W58 (the stock MKII tranny) but again it's a good idea to have it rebuilt before the swap. When you're showing off to some girl and your tranny blows you look pretty stupid.
You'll want to consider a larger radiator because the MKII rdaiator is pretty small for a turbo engine. With a new radiator you have cowl problems and you shouldn't run the a/c without a cowl. You'll want to use the 7m alternator as it puts out more amps.
A MKII with a 7mgte is very quick even in stock trim and you'll want to the swap ring and pinion out from stock (usually 4.30) to 3.73 but they're hard to find except in a yard somewhere. This will give it some drivability. With the stock r&p first and second are almost useless as you have to shift so fast.
All of this is detailed in the faq or swap sections of celicasupra.com if you just look. There are also quite a few guys in Washington who have these so you might get together with them and they'll give you some pointers. Good luck

i guess after all this, the more realistic goal would be to restore my '85. replacing the worn parts with aftermarket options...since i don't have much to spend now =/ i will just keep it nice n simple, and keep the car completely balanced. since it is my goal as of a couple months ago to make it into a "mountain carver"

Charles Q · 04-09-2007, 06:37 PM

Addco sway bars front and rear and an LJM strut tower bar will go a long way to accomplishing that goal

supramacist · 04-09-2007, 07:23 PM

I'm in the middle of rebuilding the top half of my 91 na.

These cars require alot of time for a back yard mechanic. They require loads of payolla. I have recently just dumped 3 grand into parts to repair my bhg and add some extra mods.

The upside is the 7m series engines are ultra easy to work on. 1jz's are the way to go if your'e a bit more experienced in tuning your ride.

The 7mgte engine is capable of alot and is a really hot engine but plan on rebuilding it before you plug and play..., especially if you go jdm.

Wich I would not recommend. their 40k engine specs are bogus and problematic more so than rebuilding the engine you already have.

Just my 2 cents.

edelmar417 · 04-10-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Q

Addco sway bars front and rear and an LJM strut tower bar will go a long way to accomplishing that goal

this guy right here (wes hetrick) is a hero

http://www.tscperformance.com/supramods.html

i probably won't go as far as coilovers and camber plates, but i plan on doing most of what he's done for his suspension.

anyhoot, happy driving

04-09-2007, 05:23 AM	#11
Charles Q Stock Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 7	If you go to celicasupra.com and do some searching you'll find that a swap is not as easy as some might lead you to believe. There is a lot to do and none of it is cheap. Before you're done you could have paid for a couple of new cars. This is not a hobby for the poor or the stupid. Both are going to get burned. It's also not a job for the impatient. Know EXACTLY what to do and in what order to do it in before you spend a dime or you'll live to regret it. Doing a swap on the cheap means you have, often as not, one problem after another after the swap is done. Remember you're swapping one used car into another. If you're doing it yourself and you know what you're doing (and I mean REALLY know what you're doing not just learning as you go along) it shouldn't be too much of a problem but there are a lot of these that are started and never finished. There's a lot to do and most people just don't have the time to devote to doing it start to finish so they get started and then it just sits. They wind up losing a ton of money when they sell it half done or try to part it out to recover their money. If you're having someone do it for you you better be double sure that they have the knowledge to handle what you're asking them to do and be very clear up front and in writing as to what you want and what it's going to cost. Then double that cost. If they won't work the way you want FIND SOMEONE ELSE. If you don't the car may never get finished. There are always going to be extras and problems and delays. If you rebuild the engine to start with and buy all the related parts you need before you start you'll have a car that is unbelievable even in stock trim and it won't break down on you every other week. But you should remember that a turbo engine requires a number of other mods to the driveline, suspension and brakes. Those things should be done BEFORE you swap. Realistically - figure $10,000 plus. Can it be done for less - sure but that's about what I spent and haven't had a lick of trouble. I LOVE this car. But take it from me I knew what I wanted when I started and I was lucky enough to have someone who really knew what they were doing to do the swap for me. I'm still adding mods to this thing but after a year of driving it I am so glad I did it. It is a kick in the pants to drive but there are a lot of cars that might give you that pleasure for a lot less trouble. Just be sure what you want before you start. Hope that helps. Last edited by Charles Q; 04-09-2007 at 05:27 AM.

04-09-2007, 06:20 AM	#12
edelmar417 3" Exhaust Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bellingham Posts: 51	thanks hey, thanks a bunch on your input. this is the sort of input i needed from an outsider point of view. I still haven't decided what i want to do with the engine. i'm looking towards the engine rebuild with light mods. then really work on suspension. and i think lightening the engine parts as well would help a lot. but first, time to save money again, thanks for your input. __________________ restoring with a touch of performance. future mountain carver. genesis - 1:23 " and god said unto the canyon folk, turn fast, stop fast, then go fast. And the canyon folk agreed and it was all good."

04-09-2007, 03:30 PM	#13
Charles Q Stock Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 7	I had a simple rebuild. Stock head with three angle valve grind and new pistons. Nothing fancy. If you know you're going over 400hp then you'll need forged pistons and stronger rods but expect to put out some $$$. Keep your power goals realistic. These are very light cars and power to weight is the key to speed. At about 400hp you begin to light up the tires every time you step on the gas in any gear and while that may sound cool now when you need a new set of tires in 3 months it gets real old. I had a metal head gasket and ARP studs installed as these engines were prone to blown head gaskets (bhg) from the factory. Then you'll need an '85 oil pan. Most of us shop at Champion Toyota in Texas for the discounts as Toyota parts are among the most expensive in the business. You'll need a variety of gaskets and hoses too. You'll want a new oil pump. No point putting this engine in just to have it fail because you wanted to save a few bucks on an oil pump. Fuel is critical in a 7m engine. Low fuel pressure can cause the mix to lean out and there goes your new engine so I installed a mkVI fuel pump not a Walbro though many use Walbro. I dropped over a grand in new parts. If you have a P Type then you probably have a posi rear end. These have friction disc clutches in them and most wear out after about 100,000 miles. As long as you're replacing that you might as well go trutrac but more $$$. Just keep in mind the stock parts were not set up for turbo power. Do not attempt to do this yourself. Setting up a rear end is very tricky and it's easy to burn out brand new bearings and destroy the new diff. Make sure you have a driveline shop that specializes in diffs do it NOT YOUR LOCAL MECHANIC. It's not cheap. You'll want to address the drive shaft too as the ujoints are not user servicable and you'll need a center carrier bearing. You can bolt up a W58 (the stock MKII tranny) but again it's a good idea to have it rebuilt before the swap. When you're showing off to some girl and your tranny blows you look pretty stupid. You'll want to consider a larger radiator because the MKII rdaiator is pretty small for a turbo engine. With a new radiator you have cowl problems and you shouldn't run the a/c without a cowl. You'll want to use the 7m alternator as it puts out more amps. A MKII with a 7mgte is very quick even in stock trim and you'll want to the swap ring and pinion out from stock (usually 4.30) to 3.73 but they're hard to find except in a yard somewhere. This will give it some drivability. With the stock r&p first and second are almost useless as you have to shift so fast. All of this is detailed in the faq or swap sections of celicasupra.com if you just look. There are also quite a few guys in Washington who have these so you might get together with them and they'll give you some pointers. Good luck Last edited by Charles Q; 04-09-2007 at 03:36 PM.

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04-09-2007, 06:37 PM	#15
Charles Q Stock Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 7	Addco sway bars front and rear and an LJM strut tower bar will go a long way to accomplishing that goal

04-09-2007, 07:23 PM	#16
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	I'm in the middle of rebuilding the top half of my 91 na. These cars require alot of time for a back yard mechanic. They require loads of payolla. I have recently just dumped 3 grand into parts to repair my bhg and add some extra mods. The upside is the 7m series engines are ultra easy to work on. 1jz's are the way to go if your'e a bit more experienced in tuning your ride. The 7mgte engine is capable of alot and is a really hot engine but plan on rebuilding it before you plug and play..., especially if you go jdm. Wich I would not recommend. their 40k engine specs are bogus and problematic more so than rebuilding the engine you already have. Just my 2 cents.