Timing question.

supramacist · 04-22-2008, 10:34 PM

Today I finished reinstalling all of my power steering pump system.
I janked it all out and cleaned it up nice again. Loaded the pump.

Bled everything till I was convinced that I had no more bubbles. Took it for a few drives around the block. Came back watched it. Let it run for a half an hour. All's well. Shut her off.

30 minutes later the wife gets home and I ask her if she wants to go around
the block before I park it for the day.

When I get back. The car is idling high. From 900 to 1k rpm's. Up to 2k rpm's. I break out the timing light. And the timing has jumped forward By about 15 degrees I would guesstimate.

What could have caused this? Did I miss something? The crank pulley nut is tight. For that big a jump I would think something with the dist cap teeth internally nearly had to skip if I didn't know any better. I'm hard pressed to think the timing belt skipped. Hard pressed.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.

j3pz · 04-22-2008, 10:56 PM

have you tried to reset the timing to see if it jumps again? im assuming you dont want to tear into it though.

supramacist · 04-22-2008, 11:22 PM

I'm going to mess with it tomorrow and see what I can figure out.
Hopefully someone on here will have something that will help

Ya I don't want to tear into it again, just yet I have options still before that.

supramacist · 04-23-2008, 12:08 AM

Actually Fock it. I'm on it tonight.

I think the timing belt has skipped. Nothing else it could be.
I could fix it by adjusting the dist teeth forward but that's not where the problem came from. SO I'm going into the idle tensioner pulley.

IHateHacks · 04-23-2008, 12:48 AM

Before you do anything drastic, did you jumper the terminals before you hooked that timing light up? Or did you just hook a timing light up while it was revving at 2000rpm?

The ECU advances the timing as much as 30-40 degrees BTDC depending on load, rpm, throttle position.

You might have been reading that IF you didn't jumper the terminals in the diag box.

And if you did jumper the terminals, that means you have no codes, correct?

Jumpering those terminals in the diag box is JUST LIKE disconnecting the vacuum line and pluging it on an old school vacuum advance distributor. <----- IF there are no codes.

And whoa there buddy, timing belt tensioner? WTF? Just take the upper timing belt cover off and see if the marks still line up when the crank is at 0.

It's called setting base ignition timing. If you did all of this, nevermind my rambling, I will promptly delete this post.

mrnickleye · 04-23-2008, 01:54 AM

Did the vacuum line come off that goes to the valve on the pump. Its there to up the idle during turns at idle.??

Also, the t-belt did NOT jump teeth. Why would that happen now ?

Disconnect the battery. Let it sit for 15 min then connect it again. Drive the car around the hood for about 10 min, this should allow computer to relearn.

Did you remove the distributor to do the pump clean???

supramacist · 04-23-2008, 03:01 AM

All I have done so far is crack into the timing belt.
It's solid. Then I cam back up here to check the forum.

HH: No sir. Thank you. I will go back down and place that jumper wire in.
I had assumed I didn't need to do that since I had previously timed it with the jumper wire in. Thank you very much. My purpose for going into the timing belt was to make sure the cams were at tdc with the crank.
We're on the same page. Stellar.

Mrnickleye: My next step was to adjust the dist rotor up a tooth.
But now thanks to hh I'm going to recheck the timing with the jumper wire in and see if that doesn't do it. This should put me where I need to be and I'll unplug it and roll it as well.

Edit: I had already been all over that idle line. I have it propperly secure. I'm phasing out stock clamps and going with worm clamps.

Out of curiosity..., guys. What would the car do if the dist rotor was already off a tooth? Would it have a slight sense of hesitation kind of like a baby miss or like a fowled plug? Sorry for lack of better terminology.

To be honest I am not such the mechanic to know what you mean by pump clean. So I won't even venture a guess.

Thanks guys. Very much.

cre · 04-23-2008, 04:06 AM

Actually, given that the timing light is lighting the timing mark when the #1 cylinder is firing 10? is still going to be 10?... you'll just have less room to adjust the dizzy in one direction.

supramacist · 04-23-2008, 04:40 AM

Here's what I've got.

I can adjust the timing with the jumper wire to get it right.
Now the dizzy is lifted all the way up.

It's holds correct idle upon stop and re-start. Once you go driving on the other hand. It starts speeding up and by the time I put around 3 miles on it.

It's idling at 1800 rpm's.

My game plan. Un hook the battery again. Leave it so while I dis-assemble the dist-cap. I'm having a hard time remembering if I can get to those bolts with the upper rad hose on. I'm not trying to drain my coolant, I'm out of empties.

Anyhow. Since the dizzy is bottomed out. I'm going to move it forward 1 tooth.

Any thoughts or comments before this turns into an all nighter???
I'll wait here a moment or so. Before I head back out.

Damn power steering. I finally nailed it. Now this.
2 steps forward 1 step back.

supramacist · 04-23-2008, 04:58 AM

Damn. I missed the lot of you.

Something tells me that this is something other than my dizzy being off a tooth.

But I'm dead in the water till I solve it and it's just wrench time and it costs nothing to do and I can put it all back.

Something is making it idle up even after I set the timing correctly.

I think I"ll be wasting my time with the advanced tooth theory.

It's midnight already. I haven't worked on my car till the sun came up sinse last summer. I'll go back to the drawing board. If I let her get a foot hold she'll own me again.

04-22-2008, 10:56 PM	#2
j3pz 500whp yet? Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mechanicsville, MD, US of A, 20659 Posts: 1,060	have you tried to reset the timing to see if it jumps again? im assuming you dont want to tear into it though. __________________ 88 N/A w/ 5spd - stock - not running, bhg 87 turbo/targa w/ 5spd- fidanza light weight flywheel, new oem slave cylinder, apexi air filter, no ac and no heat

04-23-2008, 12:48 AM	#5
IHateHacks 20psi boost Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Haven/Hamden Posts: 793	Before you do anything drastic, did you jumper the terminals before you hooked that timing light up? Or did you just hook a timing light up while it was revving at 2000rpm? The ECU advances the timing as much as 30-40 degrees BTDC depending on load, rpm, throttle position. You might have been reading that IF you didn't jumper the terminals in the diag box. And if you did jumper the terminals, that means you have no codes, correct? Jumpering those terminals in the diag box is JUST LIKE disconnecting the vacuum line and pluging it on an old school vacuum advance distributor. <----- IF there are no codes. And whoa there buddy, timing belt tensioner? WTF? Just take the upper timing belt cover off and see if the marks still line up when the crank is at 0. It's called setting base ignition timing. If you did all of this, nevermind my rambling, I will promptly delete this post. Last edited by IHateHacks; 04-23-2008 at 12:58 AM.

04-23-2008, 01:54 AM	#6
mrnickleye 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, Calif. Posts: 1,705	Did the vacuum line come off that goes to the valve on the pump. Its there to up the idle during turns at idle.?? Also, the t-belt did NOT jump teeth. Why would that happen now ? Disconnect the battery. Let it sit for 15 min then connect it again. Drive the car around the hood for about 10 min, this should allow computer to relearn. Did you remove the distributor to do the pump clean??? __________________ Had a Red 1989 N/A. Automatic. Sports Pkg. w/wing. TEMS, and some nice MODS. Sold to a friend 10/08/08.

04-23-2008, 04:40 AM	#9
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Here's what I've got. I can adjust the timing with the jumper wire to get it right. Now the dizzy is lifted all the way up. It's holds correct idle upon stop and re-start. Once you go driving on the other hand. It starts speeding up and by the time I put around 3 miles on it. It's idling at 1800 rpm's. My game plan. Un hook the battery again. Leave it so while I dis-assemble the dist-cap. I'm having a hard time remembering if I can get to those bolts with the upper rad hose on. I'm not trying to drain my coolant, I'm out of empties. Anyhow. Since the dizzy is bottomed out. I'm going to move it forward 1 tooth. Any thoughts or comments before this turns into an all nighter??? I'll wait here a moment or so. Before I head back out. Damn power steering. I finally nailed it. Now this. 2 steps forward 1 step back. Last edited by supramacist; 04-23-2008 at 04:51 AM.

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04-22-2008, 10:34 PM	#1
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Timing question. Today I finished reinstalling all of my power steering pump system. I janked it all out and cleaned it up nice again. Loaded the pump. Bled everything till I was convinced that I had no more bubbles. Took it for a few drives around the block. Came back watched it. Let it run for a half an hour. All's well. Shut her off. 30 minutes later the wife gets home and I ask her if she wants to go around the block before I park it for the day. When I get back. The car is idling high. From 900 to 1k rpm's. Up to 2k rpm's. I break out the timing light. And the timing has jumped forward By about 15 degrees I would guesstimate. What could have caused this? Did I miss something? The crank pulley nut is tight. For that big a jump I would think something with the dist cap teeth internally nearly had to skip if I didn't know any better. I'm hard pressed to think the timing belt skipped. Hard pressed. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading.

04-22-2008, 11:22 PM	#3
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	I'm going to mess with it tomorrow and see what I can figure out. Hopefully someone on here will have something that will help Ya I don't want to tear into it again, just yet I have options still before that.

04-23-2008, 12:08 AM	#4
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Actually Fock it. I'm on it tonight. I think the timing belt has skipped. Nothing else it could be. I could fix it by adjusting the dist teeth forward but that's not where the problem came from. SO I'm going into the idle tensioner pulley.

04-23-2008, 03:01 AM	#7
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	All I have done so far is crack into the timing belt. It's solid. Then I cam back up here to check the forum. HH: No sir. Thank you. I will go back down and place that jumper wire in. I had assumed I didn't need to do that since I had previously timed it with the jumper wire in. Thank you very much. My purpose for going into the timing belt was to make sure the cams were at tdc with the crank. We're on the same page. Stellar. Mrnickleye: My next step was to adjust the dist rotor up a tooth. But now thanks to hh I'm going to recheck the timing with the jumper wire in and see if that doesn't do it. This should put me where I need to be and I'll unplug it and roll it as well. Edit: I had already been all over that idle line. I have it propperly secure. I'm phasing out stock clamps and going with worm clamps. Out of curiosity..., guys. What would the car do if the dist rotor was already off a tooth? Would it have a slight sense of hesitation kind of like a baby miss or like a fowled plug? Sorry for lack of better terminology. To be honest I am not such the mechanic to know what you mean by pump clean. So I won't even venture a guess. Thanks guys. Very much.

04-23-2008, 04:06 AM	#8
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Actually, given that the timing light is lighting the timing mark when the #1 cylinder is firing 10? is still going to be 10?... you'll just have less room to adjust the dizzy in one direction.

04-23-2008, 04:58 AM	#10
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Damn. I missed the lot of you. Something tells me that this is something other than my dizzy being off a tooth. But I'm dead in the water till I solve it and it's just wrench time and it costs nothing to do and I can put it all back. Something is making it idle up even after I set the timing correctly. I think I"ll be wasting my time with the advanced tooth theory. It's midnight already. I haven't worked on my car till the sun came up sinse last summer. I'll go back to the drawing board. If I let her get a foot hold she'll own me again.