advanced timing?

sd88supra · 04-25-2008, 08:17 AM

A couple months ago when I failed emissions I looked at the report and noticed the timing was off... too advanced. Well, it was set at 15? so I put it back to 10? and fixed the EGR (which was a pain in the ass) and passed emissions.

These were the effects: loss of power and crappier gas mileage. So it put the timing back to 15?. Got power back, only I've driven about 40 miles since I filled 'er up so I can't say anything about gas mileage improvement yet. My question is, is this ok? There's no knocking or pinging, and from what I've seen a lot of guys advanced their timing a little. I haven't been able to drive somewhere free enough to hit 80+ mph to see if my high end torque was reduced (which I suppose it was).

If I got lower mpg at 10? it seems like there was too much drag on the car from the lack of low end torque.

mrnickleye · 04-25-2008, 02:27 PM

I ran mine at 15* for years, with no problems. I run regular gas, and have never had a pinging problem. The knock sensor will back off timing if predetonation happens.

Best mileage was 25mpg, at 60mph for 120 miles.

Usually I get 22mpg, and of course I go 70-90mph on these open desert roads.

supramacist · 04-25-2008, 04:07 PM

I need 20 miles to the gallon at like 85 mph. JOKE.

Doesn't running at 15* cause you to idle too high?
I assume you guys would adjust that out.

What kind of power are you picking up from advancing the timing by a few more degrees?

Aren't you losing low end by doing this?

How does it screw with your power band?

sd88supra · 04-25-2008, 09:00 PM

Yes, it does screw with the idle, but I also run 30 amp electric fans which when I turn on gets the idle back to ~700 rpm. Also, it does settle down by itself anyway. As far as power, I was surprised by how much of a difference it made. I wasn't expecting it to be as much. Then again, our cars are N/A. As far as losing high end torque, I would presume so, but I think MrNickleye can do a better job of answering. I'm not able to hit 90+mph often on these crowded city roads.

cre · 04-26-2008, 08:36 PM

Quit poking at the dizzy and just drop in a MAFT Pro or a MSD6 and play with the timing map across the board... no compromising for more low end + top end loss and so on.

5? of advance across the board doesn't make that much difference in my car at 30MPH or at 100MPH. It's an RPM specific thing, not related to speed at all. Keep that in mind when you're trying to figure out what works best for you.

3.0trd · 04-27-2008, 12:51 AM

89 na manual. my problem is high idle. I jumped te1, and e1, timed it(set just above 10bdc) and it idles at 1000-1100 rpm. Not a huge deal, but I know if its idling high the timing won't be right, is there a way to manually turn down the idle?

cre · 04-27-2008, 02:49 AM

I've never noticed a change in my idle with the base set at 10?, 15? or 20?.

If your idle if off then FIX IT. There's something wrong, the ECU thinks for one reason or another that the idle needs to be bumped and even if you get the timing right something else is bound to be off. There, I'm done... no more help regarding idle and timing issues from me. PERIOD.

supramacist · 04-27-2008, 03:44 PM

Hey 3.0 TPS.

Check out the thread I pointed you too you'll get all of these answers.

I'm telling you dude I have asked these cats all of these questions and have a monster thread on the subject.

I can understand why cre is being short. My thick skulled arse put him and a few other through the exact same paces.

04-25-2008, 08:17 AM	#1
sd88supra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 190	advanced timing? A couple months ago when I failed emissions I looked at the report and noticed the timing was off... too advanced. Well, it was set at 15? so I put it back to 10? and fixed the EGR (which was a pain in the ass) and passed emissions. These were the effects: loss of power and crappier gas mileage. So it put the timing back to 15?. Got power back, only I've driven about 40 miles since I filled 'er up so I can't say anything about gas mileage improvement yet. My question is, is this ok? There's no knocking or pinging, and from what I've seen a lot of guys advanced their timing a little. I haven't been able to drive somewhere free enough to hit 80+ mph to see if my high end torque was reduced (which I suppose it was). If I got lower mpg at 10? it seems like there was too much drag on the car from the lack of low end torque. __________________ -1987 5 spd N/A with TEMS: low miles! All stock with the exception of electric fans and an '89 front bumper, Yokohama 225/50/16 with stock rims. It's a mess and in the garage. -1987 5 spd Turbo with TEMS: miss-matched tires, needs lots of work, but it runs! Project car. -1988 N/A auto targa: all stock except 18" rims with Falken 265/35/18 in rear and 225/35/18 in front; daily driver.

04-25-2008, 02:27 PM	#2
mrnickleye 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, Calif. Posts: 1,705	I ran mine at 15* for years, with no problems. I run regular gas, and have never had a pinging problem. The knock sensor will back off timing if predetonation happens. Best mileage was 25mpg, at 60mph for 120 miles. Usually I get 22mpg, and of course I go 70-90mph on these open desert roads. __________________ Had a Red 1989 N/A. Automatic. Sports Pkg. w/wing. TEMS, and some nice MODS. Sold to a friend 10/08/08.

04-25-2008, 09:00 PM	#4
sd88supra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 190	a considerable amount Yes, it does screw with the idle, but I also run 30 amp electric fans which when I turn on gets the idle back to ~700 rpm. Also, it does settle down by itself anyway. As far as power, I was surprised by how much of a difference it made. I wasn't expecting it to be as much. Then again, our cars are N/A. As far as losing high end torque, I would presume so, but I think MrNickleye can do a better job of answering. I'm not able to hit 90+mph often on these crowded city roads. __________________ -1987 5 spd N/A with TEMS: low miles! All stock with the exception of electric fans and an '89 front bumper, Yokohama 225/50/16 with stock rims. It's a mess and in the garage. -1987 5 spd Turbo with TEMS: miss-matched tires, needs lots of work, but it runs! Project car. -1988 N/A auto targa: all stock except 18" rims with Falken 265/35/18 in rear and 225/35/18 in front; daily driver.

04-27-2008, 12:51 AM	#6
3.0trd 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 76	high idle 89 na manual. my problem is high idle. I jumped te1, and e1, timed it(set just above 10bdc) and it idles at 1000-1100 rpm. Not a huge deal, but I know if its idling high the timing won't be right, is there a way to manually turn down the idle?

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04-25-2008, 04:07 PM	#3
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	I need 20 miles to the gallon at like 85 mph. JOKE. Doesn't running at 15* cause you to idle too high? I assume you guys would adjust that out. What kind of power are you picking up from advancing the timing by a few more degrees? Aren't you losing low end by doing this? How does it screw with your power band?

04-26-2008, 08:36 PM	#5
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Quit poking at the dizzy and just drop in a MAFT Pro or a MSD6 and play with the timing map across the board... no compromising for more low end + top end loss and so on. 5? of advance across the board doesn't make that much difference in my car at 30MPH or at 100MPH. It's an RPM specific thing, not related to speed at all. Keep that in mind when you're trying to figure out what works best for you.

04-27-2008, 02:49 AM	#7
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	I've never noticed a change in my idle with the base set at 10?, 15? or 20?. If your idle if off then FIX IT. There's something wrong, the ECU thinks for one reason or another that the idle needs to be bumped and even if you get the timing right something else is bound to be off. There, I'm done... no more help regarding idle and timing issues from me. PERIOD.

04-27-2008, 03:44 PM	#8
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Hey 3.0 TPS. Check out the thread I pointed you too you'll get all of these answers. I'm telling you dude I have asked these cats all of these questions and have a monster thread on the subject. I can understand why cre is being short. My thick skulled arse put him and a few other through the exact same paces.