Starting isssues and spark knock Q's

spudz29212MKIII · 04-29-2008, 03:14 PM

Hi everyone first post!
My name is zach and ive pretty much read all of the MKIII threads and posts. Most of which the replies are completely incoherent. Anyways, so more recently than ever I have had some starting issues. For example car will start fine all day, then sit over night and the starting problem occurs in the morning. I know it completly has to do with the electronic ignition, because if i had a distributor my grief would be much less. SO come out in morning try to crank the engine and all i get is the starter pushing the little engine that could deal (i think i can i think i can) I get out pop the hood and just jiggle the wiring harness that crosses over the valve covers. Jump back in the car give it a crank second later engine starts right up! Im guessing my 20 year old wiring harness is just having its last gulps of life. Anyone have a EDUCATED response no beat around the bush guesses?

Next point of intrest: My engine had a slight knock inbetween 2 and 3 thousand RPM. My brother-in-law a master tech at chevy said it was spark plug knock AKA Detonation. Went to the store bought new plugs and pulled the old ones. Old ones had they symptoms of detonation white, chalky electrodes. We stole some chevy octane booster (you cant get this stuff even if you ask a dealership, for tech peep only

) and I then filled up with 93 octane. As of this point I still have the knock but now only between 2 and 2500 RPM. Any ideas? Next should I check the EGR function, and also check the funtions of the knock sensors. If the Knock sensors were operational should it not detect this knock and retard the air/fuel mixture? any ideas after that? Thanks

supramacist · 04-29-2008, 04:01 PM

I'm glad to see your 1st post here at this incoherent forum.
Let me be the 1st to welcome you. Welcome.

You can attempt rewiring parts of the harness or you can find another used one. You're looking at probably close to 1k for a "new" used harness.

Meter your cold start injector. Obviously check all wiring harness connections.

TSRM state for plug install. You finger tighten and give them a quarter turn to the right and that's that. Any further like maybe you wratcheted them down could throw off spark and or detonation. If you did torque them down then you need to back them off and see if that helps. If not.
Sounds like rod knock.

Again...., Welcome.

We're loose in here. Why alienate anyone with your 1st post??? If you knew what to do you wouldn't be asking us, therefore... You should be asking how coherent you are as well sir.

You'll receive all the help you need or where to source it from. So long as you come correct.

That being said. These are the things that stand out to me after reading your post.

I hope this helps. Good Luck.

cre · 04-29-2008, 05:26 PM

Wow, got a problem with hard to understand posts? Ditto... keep working on it.

Have you checked for error code? I highly recommend you start there.

Cygnus X1 Home Page

EDIT: This should be obvious as well, but once you've checked for error codes check the timing.

supramacist · 04-29-2008, 06:25 PM

Damn you CRE.
You're always a few steps ahead of me.

It's not so much a problem when it's 1 thing.
Once you start getting a few things my biotch makes me grind it out.

spudz29212MKIII · 04-29-2008, 08:10 PM

Oh oh I mean no offense in any way. I am no expert nor am I an idiot. When I bought my car I realized its a 20 year old car and I needed to be well informed of the operation of the vehicle from front to rear. 2nd reason is as they all say when you buy a used older car be prepared to spend at LEAST 100 bucks a month on it. So I believe its important to at least be somewhat self educated about problems or subjects at hand. I have the friggen 3 thousand page TSRM and pretty much read it front to back. (ocd about my cars done this for everyone I have owned) When I find a problem or have a question I always first do extensive research to, like I said become self educated of the subject at hand. But like I said doing any of this does not make me an expert. Hence the reason I posted questions. I would like others to give me thier ideas about how to solve it...sounds like im blah blah'in on but you know what im trying to say?

The reason I said that stuff is because of this. For about 4 months I have been poking around the forum checking different problems and questions. The thing that annoyed me is for example; someone will ask a question about something and some young gun teenager who's parents bought them a MKIII for thier first car, post the most redic replies. which usually end with "but i have no idea im just guessing". You see what im trying to say i ask a question i would hope to get some helpful hints, ideas, or facts to go by. I dont want to ask a question like ex. "My high beams dont seem too bright" then get a response from some smart ass that says "haha you dummie you should change your headlight fluid but i dont know its my guess i bought my car yesterday" wtf...lol i dont know how to explain it any better but can you understand it from my view. No i respect the opinions and the help from the people who know more than I do. So no offense.

Anyways besides trying to solve the pre-concieved notions that im an asshole, thanks for the replies. I didnt install the plugs right if your way is the correct way. I installed them and tightend them all the way. Ill try the loosening, my next idea if that didnt work. Since I have the EGR on should i try another heat range plug?

Yea I did diagnosis before I did anything. Gave me some code like air temp sensor, so i removed AFM cleaned all the connections and the sensor had a buncha dust and crud on it. Cleared the codes in the ECU ran diagnosis again and im good to go. So no codes, and I just got my front crankshaf seals replaced oil leaked onto timing belt so they replaced with new. Timing set and everything 3 weeks ago. And I also got back this morning from the shop they had set my idler pulley too tight on the timing belt so I had horrible idle noise. They did a quick loosen and double checked timing. Noise gone and timing dead on. So i know its not timing. Im going to try the plug loosen and see from there

Edit: Dont say those dreadful two words "rod knock" your going to make me cry...that is my intial thought but I put that evil demon aside until I check the plugs first

supramacist · 04-29-2008, 09:05 PM

Why aren't you the person learning how to set the idle tensioner pulley?

You don't need us dude. You need a shop with a real mechanic if you're not going to sac up for the easy shit.

Everyone here works on there own schmaz, from what I can tell.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be aggressive. I'm wondering why you want to know since you're paying someone to work on it anyway? Throw another 50 at em and be done with it.

Bill UK · 04-29-2008, 09:47 PM

Check this out. http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiii-supra/8600-7mge-oil-pressure-2.html#post44952

spudz29212MKIII · 04-29-2008, 10:45 PM

Wow...well lets see im in college getting masters, have 2 jobs, 2 dogs, 1cat, and pay all my bills. Do you honestly think at this point I have any time to do my own work...this is my only vehicle..so when I need something time consuming fixed I pay my good friends in the shop to do it. Take it in the morning on lets say a saturday tell them exactly what I want done, Bam all that shit done in a few hours and I can focus on my main priorities. I do all my research for problems on the side and got a master tech brother in law to help me along the way. so untill school is out hell yea ill take my car in buy the parts and practically get worked on for free. But yea if I had time fucking hell I would have rebuilt the engine already instead of wasting my time with small fixes here and there...plus i got the car in like august right when my school started. so ive had no time to pull the whole shit and start over.

ANYFUCKINGWHO...just got done looking at the plugs. I had put anti-sieze on them all so when went to check them I could loosen them up with just my hands. ReInstalled hand tight then quarter turn. Still knocking..havent chatted with bro-inlaw yet but im wandering down that dark alley way with the neon signs "rod knock"..

supramacist · 04-29-2008, 11:12 PM

For the money you're going to spend over the next year.
You could have paid for half of a brand new economy car.
With zero...., headaches.

And that's with free labor. Because you can't half ass anything on these cars.

All the points you mentioned for not being the person turning wrenches on your idle tensioner pulley sound more like a list of reason you should have gone a different route.

I personally. Have no interest in further aiding someone that only wants to know what someone is supposedly doing to their car.

IF, it's rod knock. A rebuild is in your near future and not just the top end.
ALL OF IT. If you choose to go with a JDM engine. A rebuild is still in your future if you want a sound set of wheels.

You can read all of the threads and posts you want spudz.
It's getting into the car and utilizing those threads that brings them home.
Without the experience. You're just a fountain of exponential information.

spudz29212MKIII · 04-29-2008, 11:36 PM

So i guess you just dont understand what im saying...i find out whats wrong...buy parts if needed..get my good buddies to fix it...then quick fix is done..i can drive to school...FYI quick fixes are just to hold me up until the summer time...when i have time....im going to pull the head on this shit, machine, rebuild, and frankenstien the old head on this block (old block had crack) pull the pan and check the bearings and everything else i come across i want to fix myself for a complete rebuild when i have TIME IE THE SUMMER...you dont think i can pull a fucking timing cover off and loosen a bolt to the tensioner to stop a noise...wow...well since im busy...i didnt have time myself to drain coolant take off fan remove therm housing pull timin cover loosen tensioner check timing fix my sqealing ac pulley..replace everything and still have time to go to classes my 2 jobs and fucking take care of a farm my girlfriend has in my living room...i cant comprehend why you are even arguing with me about this...i asked for some advice from fellow 7M owners and i get complaints of no balls because i dont put the wrench time in because im busy...thats fine say what you want i asked for tech advice not life advice Thanks

04-29-2008, 03:14 PM	#1
spudz29212MKIII 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 69	Starting isssues and spark knock Q's Hi everyone first post! My name is zach and ive pretty much read all of the MKIII threads and posts. Most of which the replies are completely incoherent. Anyways, so more recently than ever I have had some starting issues. For example car will start fine all day, then sit over night and the starting problem occurs in the morning. I know it completly has to do with the electronic ignition, because if i had a distributor my grief would be much less. SO come out in morning try to crank the engine and all i get is the starter pushing the little engine that could deal (i think i can i think i can) I get out pop the hood and just jiggle the wiring harness that crosses over the valve covers. Jump back in the car give it a crank second later engine starts right up! Im guessing my 20 year old wiring harness is just having its last gulps of life. Anyone have a EDUCATED response no beat around the bush guesses? Next point of intrest: My engine had a slight knock inbetween 2 and 3 thousand RPM. My brother-in-law a master tech at chevy said it was spark plug knock AKA Detonation. Went to the store bought new plugs and pulled the old ones. Old ones had they symptoms of detonation white, chalky electrodes. We stole some chevy octane booster (you cant get this stuff even if you ask a dealership, for tech peep only ) and I then filled up with 93 octane. As of this point I still have the knock but now only between 2 and 2500 RPM. Any ideas? Next should I check the EGR function, and also check the funtions of the knock sensors. If the Knock sensors were operational should it not detect this knock and retard the air/fuel mixture? any ideas after that? Thanks __________________ Zach

04-29-2008, 08:10 PM	#5
spudz29212MKIII 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 69	Oh oh I mean no offense in any way. I am no expert nor am I an idiot. When I bought my car I realized its a 20 year old car and I needed to be well informed of the operation of the vehicle from front to rear. 2nd reason is as they all say when you buy a used older car be prepared to spend at LEAST 100 bucks a month on it. So I believe its important to at least be somewhat self educated about problems or subjects at hand. I have the friggen 3 thousand page TSRM and pretty much read it front to back. (ocd about my cars done this for everyone I have owned) When I find a problem or have a question I always first do extensive research to, like I said become self educated of the subject at hand. But like I said doing any of this does not make me an expert. Hence the reason I posted questions. I would like others to give me thier ideas about how to solve it...sounds like im blah blah'in on but you know what im trying to say? The reason I said that stuff is because of this. For about 4 months I have been poking around the forum checking different problems and questions. The thing that annoyed me is for example; someone will ask a question about something and some young gun teenager who's parents bought them a MKIII for thier first car, post the most redic replies. which usually end with "but i have no idea im just guessing". You see what im trying to say i ask a question i would hope to get some helpful hints, ideas, or facts to go by. I dont want to ask a question like ex. "My high beams dont seem too bright" then get a response from some smart ass that says "haha you dummie you should change your headlight fluid but i dont know its my guess i bought my car yesterday" wtf...lol i dont know how to explain it any better but can you understand it from my view. No i respect the opinions and the help from the people who know more than I do. So no offense. Anyways besides trying to solve the pre-concieved notions that im an asshole, thanks for the replies. I didnt install the plugs right if your way is the correct way. I installed them and tightend them all the way. Ill try the loosening, my next idea if that didnt work. Since I have the EGR on should i try another heat range plug? Yea I did diagnosis before I did anything. Gave me some code like air temp sensor, so i removed AFM cleaned all the connections and the sensor had a buncha dust and crud on it. Cleared the codes in the ECU ran diagnosis again and im good to go. So no codes, and I just got my front crankshaf seals replaced oil leaked onto timing belt so they replaced with new. Timing set and everything 3 weeks ago. And I also got back this morning from the shop they had set my idler pulley too tight on the timing belt so I had horrible idle noise. They did a quick loosen and double checked timing. Noise gone and timing dead on. So i know its not timing. Im going to try the plug loosen and see from there Edit: Dont say those dreadful two words "rod knock" your going to make me cry...that is my intial thought but I put that evil demon aside until I check the plugs first __________________ Zach Last edited by spudz29212MKIII; 04-29-2008 at 08:14 PM.

04-29-2008, 09:05 PM	#6
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Why aren't you the person learning how to set the idle tensioner pulley? You don't need us dude. You need a shop with a real mechanic if you're not going to sac up for the easy shit. Everyone here works on there own schmaz, from what I can tell. EDIT: I'm not trying to be aggressive. I'm wondering why you want to know since you're paying someone to work on it anyway? Throw another 50 at em and be done with it. Last edited by supramacist; 04-29-2008 at 09:30 PM.

04-29-2008, 10:45 PM	#8
spudz29212MKIII 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 69	Wow...well lets see im in college getting masters, have 2 jobs, 2 dogs, 1cat, and pay all my bills. Do you honestly think at this point I have any time to do my own work...this is my only vehicle..so when I need something time consuming fixed I pay my good friends in the shop to do it. Take it in the morning on lets say a saturday tell them exactly what I want done, Bam all that shit done in a few hours and I can focus on my main priorities. I do all my research for problems on the side and got a master tech brother in law to help me along the way. so untill school is out hell yea ill take my car in buy the parts and practically get worked on for free. But yea if I had time fucking hell I would have rebuilt the engine already instead of wasting my time with small fixes here and there...plus i got the car in like august right when my school started. so ive had no time to pull the whole shit and start over. ANYFUCKINGWHO...just got done looking at the plugs. I had put anti-sieze on them all so when went to check them I could loosen them up with just my hands. ReInstalled hand tight then quarter turn. Still knocking..havent chatted with bro-inlaw yet but im wandering down that dark alley way with the neon signs "rod knock".. __________________ Zach

04-29-2008, 11:36 PM	#10
spudz29212MKIII 3" Exhaust Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 69	So i guess you just dont understand what im saying...i find out whats wrong...buy parts if needed..get my good buddies to fix it...then quick fix is done..i can drive to school...FYI quick fixes are just to hold me up until the summer time...when i have time....im going to pull the head on this shit, machine, rebuild, and frankenstien the old head on this block (old block had crack) pull the pan and check the bearings and everything else i come across i want to fix myself for a complete rebuild when i have TIME IE THE SUMMER...you dont think i can pull a fucking timing cover off and loosen a bolt to the tensioner to stop a noise...wow...well since im busy...i didnt have time myself to drain coolant take off fan remove therm housing pull timin cover loosen tensioner check timing fix my sqealing ac pulley..replace everything and still have time to go to classes my 2 jobs and fucking take care of a farm my girlfriend has in my living room...i cant comprehend why you are even arguing with me about this...i asked for some advice from fellow 7M owners and i get complaints of no balls because i dont put the wrench time in because im busy...thats fine say what you want i asked for tech advice not life advice Thanks __________________ Zach

04-29-2008, 04:01 PM	#2
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	I'm glad to see your 1st post here at this incoherent forum. Let me be the 1st to welcome you. Welcome. You can attempt rewiring parts of the harness or you can find another used one. You're looking at probably close to 1k for a "new" used harness. Meter your cold start injector. Obviously check all wiring harness connections. TSRM state for plug install. You finger tighten and give them a quarter turn to the right and that's that. Any further like maybe you wratcheted them down could throw off spark and or detonation. If you did torque them down then you need to back them off and see if that helps. If not. Sounds like rod knock. Again...., Welcome. We're loose in here. Why alienate anyone with your 1st post??? If you knew what to do you wouldn't be asking us, therefore... You should be asking how coherent you are as well sir. You'll receive all the help you need or where to source it from. So long as you come correct. That being said. These are the things that stand out to me after reading your post. I hope this helps. Good Luck.

04-29-2008, 05:26 PM	#3
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Wow, got a problem with hard to understand posts? Ditto... keep working on it. Have you checked for error code? I highly recommend you start there. Cygnus X1 Home Page EDIT: This should be obvious as well, but once you've checked for error codes check the timing.

04-29-2008, 06:25 PM	#4
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	Damn you CRE. You're always a few steps ahead of me. It's not so much a problem when it's 1 thing. Once you start getting a few things my biotch makes me grind it out.

04-29-2008, 09:47 PM	#7
Bill UK AEM EMS Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 891	Check this out. http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiii-supra/8600-7mge-oil-pressure-2.html#post44952

04-29-2008, 11:12 PM	#9
supramacist 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Escape from the Prison Planet Posts: 1,356	For the money you're going to spend over the next year. You could have paid for half of a brand new economy car. With zero...., headaches. And that's with free labor. Because you can't half ass anything on these cars. All the points you mentioned for not being the person turning wrenches on your idle tensioner pulley sound more like a list of reason you should have gone a different route. I personally. Have no interest in further aiding someone that only wants to know what someone is supposedly doing to their car. IF, it's rod knock. A rebuild is in your near future and not just the top end. ALL OF IT. If you choose to go with a JDM engine. A rebuild is still in your future if you want a sound set of wheels. You can read all of the threads and posts you want spudz. It's getting into the car and utilizing those threads that brings them home. Without the experience. You're just a fountain of exponential information.