(race) car won't start

pdudley42 · 05-17-2009, 08:05 PM

Hi. I'm Paul. My friends and I have just entered into the 24 hours of Lemons in Connecticut. Our car is an 86 1/2 Supra non-turbo. The car WILL be great once we get it to start again. Hoping for some advice on its particulars. It was running when we got it. Someone took out the starter (to change it) and intake manifold (thought they needed to) and now it won't run. Initially we just thought it was a no-spark. Now it seems to be ECU related. Almost every single pin from the ECU has battery voltage present, regardless of key position. Fuel pump relay (buzzes like it's switching on and off), cold-start injector, main relay, and all dash lights come on any time the battery is attached. Odd! Needless to say, we need some help. Tomorrow we're planning to order a new (used) ECU for $30, unless we get some bright idea of another angle to go from. Please help us. By the way, if you're not familiar with the race O'm talking about, check out http://24hoursoflemons.com/.

carl johansson · 05-19-2009, 12:03 AM

We run the same car in the houston and california road races - keeps running when everybody else breaks. March in Houston - we ended up 8th out of 95 cars - and the guys that beat us had 10X as much money in their suspensions as we had in the whole car. Be prepared - you will not be running on a level playing field - there will be guys with 5 or 10K in their cars.
We were also slow - we only had the 84th fastest lap time - so our only advantages were reliabilioty and iron bladders - and no penalties!

I would go back and look at the starter - are you sure it's good? Does the key crank the starter? if not after you hook it to the battery - jump across the solenoid and see if you can get it to spit out the bendix and turn - if not the starter is not hooked up correctly -
so I guess I need a bit more info - is it cranking when you turn the key?

Carl Johansson
Car 86 - Johansson brothers racing

pdudley42 · 05-20-2009, 12:41 PM

Hi Carl,
thanks for the insight. I stopped listing symptoms because I didn't want to overwhelm any potential helpers. Yes, our starter works. Cranks with the key appropriately, just no spark and I believe no fuel pump either. Circuit-opening relay requires oil pressure to fire the fuel pump (it might be running and I just can't hear it, but I think that is a few steps ahead of where we're at in the diagnosis). My new ECU should be here today, but I can't find time to install it until next week. Track event in my supercharged Miata this weekend...big fun.
Did you post any video or photos of your Lemons Supra on the internet?
If there's any more info I can give you to help me, let me know.
Thanks, Paul

dunewarz · 05-20-2009, 10:08 PM

No spark you say? If you got the problem during a replacement of a starter I'd first check all the fuses and relays. You might want to check your ignitor and coils as well. If non-turbo you need to check the distributor, rotor, and coil.

carl johansson · 05-21-2009, 11:58 PM

Hey Paul,
heres a link to the jalopnik coverage. 6 or 8 photos in the rising sun gallery - car 86 - Detroit bailout

http://jalopnik.com/5179666/the-24-h...y-the-japanese

ar15reeder · 05-23-2009, 03:48 AM

hi i hear you have some probs with starting your car im a toyota tech so i will try to help. from what you are sayin about when you connected the battery and the lights are coming on im gessing with the switch is off, i would have to say when who ever replaced the starter possable pinched some wires and grounding some wires. look over all the wiring harrnesses by the intake and the starter making sure none are pinched. go to this web sie this has wiring info that will be veary helpful http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...3/default.aspx

let me know what you find!

pdudley42 · 05-25-2009, 10:56 PM

Thanks ar15reeder (and everybody else).
Figured it out today. Car's running strong (just one more vacuum leak to fix). Ever wonder why there are no monuments for committees??? It turns out that two ring terminals of wires we attached to the starter hot wire were in fact supposed to be grounds to the bottom of the intake manifold. We tested those leads over a week ago and I determined that they were indeed supposed to be positive. However, at the time there was no battery in the car and it IS possible that master jump-pack hooked up the cables backwards at that time, sending us hurtling in the wrong direction.
I plugged in the new computer yesterday and it was of course just the same. After that I was convinced that it had to be something REALLY stupid. At least I was right about something.
Now that our race car's running, we can focus on the rest of the stuff we need. I'm glad I found your forum, cause I need more advice. Our Supra has the electronic shocks and they're SHOT. Our car must remain cheap as per the specs of the Lemons race, so can anybody recommend some good non-adjustable shocks (can we jsut swap in non-electronic ones). Same goes for brake pads, except that they count as safety equipment, so they don't count toward our $500 limit. I like Hawk pads, are these available (Blues or Blacks) and are they a good choice for the Supra? Also do these motors tend to overheat when pushed hard, aka will a stock radiator suffice (Connecticut in August)?
I spent all weekend ripping on my Miata at a track in upstate New York, but today when the car started was the most gratifying moment in a long time.
Thanks, Paul

05-17-2009, 08:05 PM	#1
pdudley42 Stock Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waitsfield, Vt Posts: 8	(race) car won't start Hi. I'm Paul. My friends and I have just entered into the 24 hours of Lemons in Connecticut. Our car is an 86 1/2 Supra non-turbo. The car WILL be great once we get it to start again. Hoping for some advice on its particulars. It was running when we got it. Someone took out the starter (to change it) and intake manifold (thought they needed to) and now it won't run. Initially we just thought it was a no-spark. Now it seems to be ECU related. Almost every single pin from the ECU has battery voltage present, regardless of key position. Fuel pump relay (buzzes like it's switching on and off), cold-start injector, main relay, and all dash lights come on any time the battery is attached. Odd! Needless to say, we need some help. Tomorrow we're planning to order a new (used) ECU for $30, unless we get some bright idea of another angle to go from. Please help us. By the way, if you're not familiar with the race O'm talking about, check out http://24hoursoflemons.com/.

05-23-2009, 03:48 AM	#6
ar15reeder Stock Join Date: May 2009 Location: cincinnati Posts: 2	race car problems hi i hear you have some probs with starting your car im a toyota tech so i will try to help. from what you are sayin about when you connected the battery and the lights are coming on im gessing with the switch is off, i would have to say when who ever replaced the starter possable pinched some wires and grounding some wires. look over all the wiring harrnesses by the intake and the starter making sure none are pinched. go to this web sie this has wiring info that will be veary helpful http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...3/default.aspx let me know what you find!

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05-19-2009, 12:03 AM	#2
carl johansson 3" Exhaust Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Auberry, California Posts: 141	We run the same car in the houston and california road races - keeps running when everybody else breaks. March in Houston - we ended up 8th out of 95 cars - and the guys that beat us had 10X as much money in their suspensions as we had in the whole car. Be prepared - you will not be running on a level playing field - there will be guys with 5 or 10K in their cars. We were also slow - we only had the 84th fastest lap time - so our only advantages were reliabilioty and iron bladders - and no penalties! I would go back and look at the starter - are you sure it's good? Does the key crank the starter? if not after you hook it to the battery - jump across the solenoid and see if you can get it to spit out the bendix and turn - if not the starter is not hooked up correctly - so I guess I need a bit more info - is it cranking when you turn the key? Carl Johansson Car 86 - Johansson brothers racing

05-20-2009, 12:41 PM	#3
pdudley42 Stock Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waitsfield, Vt Posts: 8	Hi Carl, thanks for the insight. I stopped listing symptoms because I didn't want to overwhelm any potential helpers. Yes, our starter works. Cranks with the key appropriately, just no spark and I believe no fuel pump either. Circuit-opening relay requires oil pressure to fire the fuel pump (it might be running and I just can't hear it, but I think that is a few steps ahead of where we're at in the diagnosis). My new ECU should be here today, but I can't find time to install it until next week. Track event in my supercharged Miata this weekend...big fun. Did you post any video or photos of your Lemons Supra on the internet? If there's any more info I can give you to help me, let me know. Thanks, Paul

05-20-2009, 10:08 PM	#4
dunewarz 3" Exhaust Join Date: May 2009 Location: WhiteBear Posts: 54	No spark you say? If you got the problem during a replacement of a starter I'd first check all the fuses and relays. You might want to check your ignitor and coils as well. If non-turbo you need to check the distributor, rotor, and coil.

05-21-2009, 11:58 PM	#5
carl johansson 3" Exhaust Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Auberry, California Posts: 141	Hey Paul, heres a link to the jalopnik coverage. 6 or 8 photos in the rising sun gallery - car 86 - Detroit bailout http://jalopnik.com/5179666/the-24-h...y-the-japanese

05-25-2009, 10:56 PM	#7
pdudley42 Stock Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waitsfield, Vt Posts: 8	Thanks ar15reeder (and everybody else). Figured it out today. Car's running strong (just one more vacuum leak to fix). Ever wonder why there are no monuments for committees??? It turns out that two ring terminals of wires we attached to the starter hot wire were in fact supposed to be grounds to the bottom of the intake manifold. We tested those leads over a week ago and I determined that they were indeed supposed to be positive. However, at the time there was no battery in the car and it IS possible that master jump-pack hooked up the cables backwards at that time, sending us hurtling in the wrong direction. I plugged in the new computer yesterday and it was of course just the same. After that I was convinced that it had to be something REALLY stupid. At least I was right about something. Now that our race car's running, we can focus on the rest of the stuff we need. I'm glad I found your forum, cause I need more advice. Our Supra has the electronic shocks and they're SHOT. Our car must remain cheap as per the specs of the Lemons race, so can anybody recommend some good non-adjustable shocks (can we jsut swap in non-electronic ones). Same goes for brake pads, except that they count as safety equipment, so they don't count toward our $500 limit. I like Hawk pads, are these available (Blues or Blacks) and are they a good choice for the Supra? Also do these motors tend to overheat when pushed hard, aka will a stock radiator suffice (Connecticut in August)? I spent all weekend ripping on my Miata at a track in upstate New York, but today when the car started was the most gratifying moment in a long time. Thanks, Paul