warming up?

Krem · 10-19-2009, 06:55 PM

Before my car died and had to be repaired, it ran great... any given time of the day I could go out, fire her up and drive away... since I've got her back from the shop, she seems a bit sluggish, bogged down in a sense... but I've noticed she runs better when the coolant system warms up some. Infact, it's soo bad that in the mornings now, my car doesn't seem to want to start and stay running, I have to depress the gas much like I am trying to start up a carb. engine w/ no choke.. They ran diagnostic tests and found nothing wrong with the car, so their next step (before arriving at the problem of a snapped distributor) was to pull the o2 sensor and check exhaust systems.

Guess my question here is... do these fuel injected engines need a warm up period like carbs do? or could it be misinstallation of the o2 in the exhaust system that is creating these issues? it's just unsettling cause my car broke down on my way into work a few weeks ago and every morning I go to leave, she tries dying out a couple of times before I get out of my apartment complex. I don't know what to think cause I wasn't having this problem before taking it in, but unless I can prove they did something, they'll want to charge me shop fees, labor and all the other crap that comes with it. Though they're likely to pull that routine regardless if I know for sure what's going on... but I'd rather have some ammo to use than none at all.

CanadianBak'inSupra · 10-20-2009, 12:49 AM

i myself dont usually drive away until the car has been running for around 5 mins

im not posative but i dont think its good to do much more than putt along while cold in cold weather until you get "some" heat off your temp gauge...

cre · 10-20-2009, 02:29 AM

There is a warm up period. The ECU doesn't start adjusting the fuel flow from anything beyond what the static map says until the coolant sensor says the engine is up to temp. This results in the car running rich as a safety measure.

Have you had the ignition timing checked? If you're having this problem only when the car is cold it's possible the temp sensor is not providing an accurate reading until it's in the higher temp range. As I've mentioned before, the timing is also suspect. The ECU uses a different ignition timing map when the engine is cold and as a result if your timing is off it may be WAY off when running cold.

Krem · 10-20-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre

If you're having this problem only when the car is cold it's possible the temp sensor is not providing an accurate reading until it's in the higher temp range. As I've mentioned before, the timing is also suspect. The ECU uses a different ignition timing map when the engine is cold and as a result if your timing is off it may be WAY off when running cold.

Wh00t, you the man Cre... or woman if the rarity applies... I just recently fixed my plug to the sensor in the thermostat.. before, one of the connections was broke and shoved up inside the plug, possibly not making contact at all... however, after fixing the plug to the sensor, I notice my coolant temp gauge goes up slowly as the water warms up, rather than just jumping up to the middle automatically... However, it doesn't go past half way, regardless how hot the liquid might be... I can smell that burning coolant smell, engine will stay pretty hot for an hour after I park it from a 30 mile drive.. so I have a hunch I'm running hoter than the gauge says, and pretty sure it's not over heating as there's no steam to be found anywhere... however, I think I am running rich once my coolant is warmer than the gauge says it is... so perhaps a new sensor in the thermostat housing should fix this?

cre · 10-20-2009, 03:42 AM

That burning coolant smell means you're loosing coolant and it's most likely hitting the exhaust. The ECU coolant temp sensor is not the same as the gauge's temp sensor... they each have their own.

Click image for larger version

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ID: 2450

Krem · 10-20-2009, 05:03 AM

Hmmmm, that picture is VERY helpfull... apparently what I did fix WAS the ECU sensor... which explains why this wanting to die out feeling when the engine is cold just began when I fixed that. I'm honestly hoping the BVSV is for a blow of valve because I have nothing at that point, the two green things the orange hoses are hooked up to terminate right there... no hoses. Guess I'll have to check the gauge sensor when I have light tomorrow...

As for the burning coolant smell, I actually smell it up near the main hose connecting the thermostat to the radiator... and to the right side of the radiator, close to the front right headlight... don't think I'm loosing coolant tho as my level in the radiator is at the cap any time I check it cold, and the overflow isn't boiling or filling up when I check it hot.

I've just assumed the smell is coming from the hot coolant being pushed back into the radiator since I have no fan shroud and the water is probably not cooling as well as it should be... believe you me, once I get all my leaks and kinks fixed, an alum. radiator w/ dual elec fans in one shroud will replace my crank fan and radiator in there now.. but I guess I'll need to get a radiator for the transmission cooling too... dunno where that's gunna go, I've already got the one for oil? in front of my current radiator now.. Even worse, this car was a manual converted to auto... no, I didn't get that backwards... and I have no idea why someone would do such a thing... but it leaves me wondering if my radiator is cooling my transmission fluid at all as is.. :\

As you can see, I still got lots to learn, but you gave a great visual aid

thank you

edit:
ok, so I still dunno what a BVSV stands for, but I figured out it relates with my EGR system, if I had it connected... but I find this peculiar as the car passed smog just before I bought it... and I didn't remove the hoses to the BVSV...

Krem · 10-26-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre

Attachment 2450

The sensor plug we fixed, according to this pic, is actually BEHIND the BVSV hoses... and has the same kinda plug as the ECU coolant sensor... but I've confirmed the ECU coolant sensor is lower than the plug we fixed... any idea what I might have fixed?

10-19-2009, 06:55 PM	#1
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	warming up? Before my car died and had to be repaired, it ran great... any given time of the day I could go out, fire her up and drive away... since I've got her back from the shop, she seems a bit sluggish, bogged down in a sense... but I've noticed she runs better when the coolant system warms up some. Infact, it's soo bad that in the mornings now, my car doesn't seem to want to start and stay running, I have to depress the gas much like I am trying to start up a carb. engine w/ no choke.. They ran diagnostic tests and found nothing wrong with the car, so their next step (before arriving at the problem of a snapped distributor) was to pull the o2 sensor and check exhaust systems. Guess my question here is... do these fuel injected engines need a warm up period like carbs do? or could it be misinstallation of the o2 in the exhaust system that is creating these issues? it's just unsettling cause my car broke down on my way into work a few weeks ago and every morning I go to leave, she tries dying out a couple of times before I get out of my apartment complex. I don't know what to think cause I wasn't having this problem before taking it in, but unless I can prove they did something, they'll want to charge me shop fees, labor and all the other crap that comes with it. Though they're likely to pull that routine regardless if I know for sure what's going on... but I'd rather have some ammo to use than none at all.

10-20-2009, 05:03 AM	#6
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	Hmmmm, that picture is VERY helpfull... apparently what I did fix WAS the ECU sensor... which explains why this wanting to die out feeling when the engine is cold just began when I fixed that. I'm honestly hoping the BVSV is for a blow of valve because I have nothing at that point, the two green things the orange hoses are hooked up to terminate right there... no hoses. Guess I'll have to check the gauge sensor when I have light tomorrow... As for the burning coolant smell, I actually smell it up near the main hose connecting the thermostat to the radiator... and to the right side of the radiator, close to the front right headlight... don't think I'm loosing coolant tho as my level in the radiator is at the cap any time I check it cold, and the overflow isn't boiling or filling up when I check it hot. I've just assumed the smell is coming from the hot coolant being pushed back into the radiator since I have no fan shroud and the water is probably not cooling as well as it should be... believe you me, once I get all my leaks and kinks fixed, an alum. radiator w/ dual elec fans in one shroud will replace my crank fan and radiator in there now.. but I guess I'll need to get a radiator for the transmission cooling too... dunno where that's gunna go, I've already got the one for oil? in front of my current radiator now.. Even worse, this car was a manual converted to auto... no, I didn't get that backwards... and I have no idea why someone would do such a thing... but it leaves me wondering if my radiator is cooling my transmission fluid at all as is.. :\ As you can see, I still got lots to learn, but you gave a great visual aid thank you edit: ok, so I still dunno what a BVSV stands for, but I figured out it relates with my EGR system, if I had it connected... but I find this peculiar as the car passed smog just before I bought it... and I didn't remove the hoses to the BVSV... Last edited by Krem; 10-20-2009 at 05:15 AM.

10-20-2009, 12:49 AM	#2
CanadianBak'inSupra Official hall monitor / search nazi - NO SOUP FOR YOU! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 837	i myself dont usually drive away until the car has been running for around 5 mins im not posative but i dont think its good to do much more than putt along while cold in cold weather until you get "some" heat off your temp gauge...

10-20-2009, 02:29 AM	#3
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	There is a warm up period. The ECU doesn't start adjusting the fuel flow from anything beyond what the static map says until the coolant sensor says the engine is up to temp. This results in the car running rich as a safety measure. Have you had the ignition timing checked? If you're having this problem only when the car is cold it's possible the temp sensor is not providing an accurate reading until it's in the higher temp range. As I've mentioned before, the timing is also suspect. The ECU uses a different ignition timing map when the engine is cold and as a result if your timing is off it may be WAY off when running cold.

10-20-2009, 03:42 AM	#5
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	That burning coolant smell means you're loosing coolant and it's most likely hitting the exhaust. The ECU coolant temp sensor is not the same as the gauge's temp sensor... they each have their own.