is this possible??

CanadianBak'inSupra · 11-10-2009, 02:51 PM

my friend and i were having a conversation and a so called stroker kit came into play
is this real?
can i really make my 3.0 into a 3.4 liter with a longer stroke??
if so i would be very interested in this, anythoiughts let me know please

Krem · 11-10-2009, 04:15 PM

They exist... just google "7mge stroker kit" (or "7mgte stroker kit" if you have a turbo).. here's the first one I found, sure there's some cheaper...

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...s_toyota2.html

however, from the spec's mentioned, I'd imagine you'll want to up your injectors and possibly your fuel pump and rails (but not sure bout that). However, if that's done in part of the kit, no worries.. Good luck, I'd love to get that much power out of my supra... atm, I think I'm gettin somewhere around 180-200hp :\.. but she's in no condition to dyno, still pretty much stock with quite a bit of sluggishness..

cre · 11-10-2009, 07:18 PM

The gains are pathetic and the MKIII has long enough of a stroke as it is. It's a complete waste of money.

From everything I've seen posted on all the various fourms that N/A generally comes in between the upper 140's and the lower 160's (at the wheels). Some people post results that are wildly higher, but almost all of them were tested using brands of dynos which are agreed by the masses to always report high and over optimistic results including DynoJet. In all actuality ALL dynos vary from eachother (even the same brand and model), they can ALL be skewed (the operator has a number of calibration adjustments available to him and the shop stands to make more money from you if you think every little change you make gets you big enough gains to merit yet another dyno run) and so on. The only way that dynos are reliable is if you ALWAYS use the same one; they don't change the software version; and you always have them run with NO corrections on.... you'll be thoroughly upset at the results, but the next time you dyno there you'll have a much more realistic idea of what gaind were made. Also, keep in mind that a car's measured output can vary by 10RWHP or so from one run to the next.

I dynod at 164RWHP on a very healthy N/A running a 3.5"GM MAF. This was untuned and running excessively rich. I don't think I would have done much better with a tighter tune though.

A guy I know pretty well in TN named Alex is running a fully built 7M-GE. .50 over forged pistons, BIG stroker kit, MAFT Pro running S/D (I helped him set it up, that's how we met... he's only the second person to get it running on a N/A), lightweight and balanced forged and cryod connecting rods, lightweight and balanced and bladed crank..... and so on. I think he's putting down 220, maybe as high as 240 at the wheels... that's pathetic given the total investment. He is happy with it though, so that's what matters.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286440

Krem · 11-10-2009, 08:51 PM

wow, that is pretty pricey per hp gained... I think I'd rather just get a JDM 7mgte swap and start with that much power instead of ending with it.. however, it sounds very nice and something to take pride in.. and for that, I'm still envious and can't wait to hopefully have a mk3 as nice..

CanadianBak'inSupra · 11-12-2009, 01:52 PM

what ways would you achieve a so called "45" HP gain??
and cheaper?

Krem · 11-12-2009, 05:13 PM

I don't know about 45 hp... I know NA's don't gain much more HP, at least not in comparison to a turbo... have you tried the cold air intake? cat back exhaust, maybe headers? These are what I've been looking at for my NA... but mainly cause I'm not sure of further upgrades for a smaller budget.

cre · 11-12-2009, 06:18 PM

When talking "cold air intake" let's clarify and add that a short pipe with a big fat cone filter in the engine bay is NOT beneficial... not unless you build a nice big box around the filter and feed the box air from outside the engine bay.

Also, while we're at it I'll add that the removal of the Helmholtz resonator is not beneficial. The resonator is not designed in such a way that it impairs the flow or air through the intake... in fact it helps it. For the same reason that it muffles sound it smooths the airflow: it eliminates turbulence.

Cat back, headers, different intake do make a difference, cams, tuning, porting and polishing make an even bigger one. Hitting 200 - 220 at the wheels with these mods shouldn't be too difficult, but getting much beyond that you're looking at more and more expensive engine work. My recommendation is to put together a list of mods which you'll be able to use on a turbo'd engine in the future, even if they don't make a big difference on your N/A.

Krem · 11-12-2009, 11:17 PM

damn, I guess I need to put a ram scoop on my front end then.. cause no way am I dropping the pipe to pull air from the bottom of the car... Las Vegas is not known for getting much rain, but it is known for flooding almost any time it does rain.. I always thought the alum. piping helped.. but figured the cone wasn't anything more than an air filter.. sad to hear there's no added benefit other than the throaty sound made.. well, till I get a ram scoop...

CanadianBak'inSupra · 11-13-2009, 12:55 AM

well for starters, i baught the car from a "good friend" and lets end at that.
engine was rebuilt 2 years ago, and HG and full top end rebuild was done 4 months ago for unknown reasons...

performance cat-converter and performance muffler, headers, and all new 2 & 1/2 inch piping(all done in last 2 years)

what is a "Helmholtz resonator"???

and ive been meaning to make a new air bow, for my cone filter with engine bay fed air is horrid...(missing stock airbox)

cre · 11-13-2009, 02:43 AM

The filter doesn't have to sit behind the fog light... that is too low. It should sit right under the headlight. This puts the top of the filter roughly level with the top of the bumper. The other option is to build a box where the stock air box was that is open where the stork air box pulled air from, the rest should be closed and preferably insulated. In all honesty, the N/A doesn't flow nearly enough air for the stock air box to pose any restriction, not even with a cheap, paper FRAM filter installed (which my the way filters MUCH better than half of the "performance" filters out there).

Aluminum piping is probably worse than the plastic and rubber arrangement, it allows heat from the engine bay to penetrate far more quickly than plastic, rubber or even steel. The trade off is that plastic, rubber and steel take longer to release the heat they absorb, but in their case it's released over a broader span of time. The only real way to get some good performance out of the intake piping is to insulate it very well, whether you wrap it with heat wrap (also known as exhaust wrap or tape) or get the piping ceramic coated. The performance difference with these things though is pretty small on the larger scale and really only affects performance after sitting idle for a minute or more. I really wouldn't sweat it.

If you're just dying for every little detail to be perfect, keep the resonator (paint it if you prefer), get the intake piping wrapped or coated and build an insulated air box or move the filter AND replace the corrugated rubber couplers in the intake piping with SMOOTH couplers. Also consider getting your exhaust manifold coated or wrapped as it will greatly reduce under the hood temps and improve exhaust flow.

As for the resonator; do you guys know what a sound wave looks like on the computer? Peaks and valleys. To put it VERY simply a helmholtz resonator reduces noise and turbulence in air flow by leveling out those valleys and thus removing turbulence. Now it is possible for the resonator to be built to dimensions which will have a negative effect, but Toyota spent a LOT of money on the math and testing of it before they put it in the car... otherwise I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have risked adding an unnecessary part that could result in a major performance hit. There are other types of mufflers used in automotive applications which are damaging to performance and the removal of these will definitely increase performance... much like exhaust mufflers, baffled intake mufflers are the worst... don't worry, your car doesn't have one.

Here read this: http://www.planetsoarer.com/resonator/resonator.html (Everyone read it! There WILL be a test!)

11-10-2009, 02:51 PM	#1
CanadianBak'inSupra Official hall monitor / search nazi - NO SOUP FOR YOU! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 837	is this possible?? my friend and i were having a conversation and a so called stroker kit came into play is this real? can i really make my 3.0 into a 3.4 liter with a longer stroke?? if so i would be very interested in this, anythoiughts let me know please

11-10-2009, 04:15 PM	#2
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	They exist... just google "7mge stroker kit" (or "7mgte stroker kit" if you have a turbo).. here's the first one I found, sure there's some cheaper... http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...s_toyota2.html however, from the spec's mentioned, I'd imagine you'll want to up your injectors and possibly your fuel pump and rails (but not sure bout that). However, if that's done in part of the kit, no worries.. Good luck, I'd love to get that much power out of my supra... atm, I think I'm gettin somewhere around 180-200hp :\.. but she's in no condition to dyno, still pretty much stock with quite a bit of sluggishness..

11-10-2009, 07:18 PM	#3
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	The gains are pathetic and the MKIII has long enough of a stroke as it is. It's a complete waste of money. From everything I've seen posted on all the various fourms that N/A generally comes in between the upper 140's and the lower 160's (at the wheels). Some people post results that are wildly higher, but almost all of them were tested using brands of dynos which are agreed by the masses to always report high and over optimistic results including DynoJet. In all actuality ALL dynos vary from eachother (even the same brand and model), they can ALL be skewed (the operator has a number of calibration adjustments available to him and the shop stands to make more money from you if you think every little change you make gets you big enough gains to merit yet another dyno run) and so on. The only way that dynos are reliable is if you ALWAYS use the same one; they don't change the software version; and you always have them run with NO corrections on.... you'll be thoroughly upset at the results, but the next time you dyno there you'll have a much more realistic idea of what gaind were made. Also, keep in mind that a car's measured output can vary by 10RWHP or so from one run to the next. I dynod at 164RWHP on a very healthy N/A running a 3.5"GM MAF. This was untuned and running excessively rich. I don't think I would have done much better with a tighter tune though. A guy I know pretty well in TN named Alex is running a fully built 7M-GE. .50 over forged pistons, BIG stroker kit, MAFT Pro running S/D (I helped him set it up, that's how we met... he's only the second person to get it running on a N/A), lightweight and balanced forged and cryod connecting rods, lightweight and balanced and bladed crank..... and so on. I think he's putting down 220, maybe as high as 240 at the wheels... that's pathetic given the total investment. He is happy with it though, so that's what matters. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286440

11-10-2009, 08:51 PM	#4
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	wow, that is pretty pricey per hp gained... I think I'd rather just get a JDM 7mgte swap and start with that much power instead of ending with it.. however, it sounds very nice and something to take pride in.. and for that, I'm still envious and can't wait to hopefully have a mk3 as nice..

11-12-2009, 01:52 PM	#5
CanadianBak'inSupra Official hall monitor / search nazi - NO SOUP FOR YOU! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 837	what ways would you achieve a so called "45" HP gain?? and cheaper?

11-12-2009, 05:13 PM	#6
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	I don't know about 45 hp... I know NA's don't gain much more HP, at least not in comparison to a turbo... have you tried the cold air intake? cat back exhaust, maybe headers? These are what I've been looking at for my NA... but mainly cause I'm not sure of further upgrades for a smaller budget.

11-12-2009, 06:18 PM	#7
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	When talking "cold air intake" let's clarify and add that a short pipe with a big fat cone filter in the engine bay is NOT beneficial... not unless you build a nice big box around the filter and feed the box air from outside the engine bay. Also, while we're at it I'll add that the removal of the Helmholtz resonator is not beneficial. The resonator is not designed in such a way that it impairs the flow or air through the intake... in fact it helps it. For the same reason that it muffles sound it smooths the airflow: it eliminates turbulence. Cat back, headers, different intake do make a difference, cams, tuning, porting and polishing make an even bigger one. Hitting 200 - 220 at the wheels with these mods shouldn't be too difficult, but getting much beyond that you're looking at more and more expensive engine work. My recommendation is to put together a list of mods which you'll be able to use on a turbo'd engine in the future, even if they don't make a big difference on your N/A.

11-12-2009, 11:17 PM	#8
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	damn, I guess I need to put a ram scoop on my front end then.. cause no way am I dropping the pipe to pull air from the bottom of the car... Las Vegas is not known for getting much rain, but it is known for flooding almost any time it does rain.. I always thought the alum. piping helped.. but figured the cone wasn't anything more than an air filter.. sad to hear there's no added benefit other than the throaty sound made.. well, till I get a ram scoop...

11-13-2009, 12:55 AM	#9
CanadianBak'inSupra Official hall monitor / search nazi - NO SOUP FOR YOU! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 837	well for starters, i baught the car from a "good friend" and lets end at that. engine was rebuilt 2 years ago, and HG and full top end rebuild was done 4 months ago for unknown reasons... performance cat-converter and performance muffler, headers, and all new 2 & 1/2 inch piping(all done in last 2 years) what is a "Helmholtz resonator"??? and ive been meaning to make a new air bow, for my cone filter with engine bay fed air is horrid...(missing stock airbox)

11-13-2009, 02:43 AM	#10
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	The filter doesn't have to sit behind the fog light... that is too low. It should sit right under the headlight. This puts the top of the filter roughly level with the top of the bumper. The other option is to build a box where the stock air box was that is open where the stork air box pulled air from, the rest should be closed and preferably insulated. In all honesty, the N/A doesn't flow nearly enough air for the stock air box to pose any restriction, not even with a cheap, paper FRAM filter installed (which my the way filters MUCH better than half of the "performance" filters out there). Aluminum piping is probably worse than the plastic and rubber arrangement, it allows heat from the engine bay to penetrate far more quickly than plastic, rubber or even steel. The trade off is that plastic, rubber and steel take longer to release the heat they absorb, but in their case it's released over a broader span of time. The only real way to get some good performance out of the intake piping is to insulate it very well, whether you wrap it with heat wrap (also known as exhaust wrap or tape) or get the piping ceramic coated. The performance difference with these things though is pretty small on the larger scale and really only affects performance after sitting idle for a minute or more. I really wouldn't sweat it. If you're just dying for every little detail to be perfect, keep the resonator (paint it if you prefer), get the intake piping wrapped or coated and build an insulated air box or move the filter AND replace the corrugated rubber couplers in the intake piping with SMOOTH couplers. Also consider getting your exhaust manifold coated or wrapped as it will greatly reduce under the hood temps and improve exhaust flow. As for the resonator; do you guys know what a sound wave looks like on the computer? Peaks and valleys. To put it VERY simply a helmholtz resonator reduces noise and turbulence in air flow by leveling out those valleys and thus removing turbulence. Now it is possible for the resonator to be built to dimensions which will have a negative effect, but Toyota spent a LOT of money on the math and testing of it before they put it in the car... otherwise I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have risked adding an unnecessary part that could result in a major performance hit. There are other types of mufflers used in automotive applications which are damaging to performance and the removal of these will definitely increase performance... much like exhaust mufflers, baffled intake mufflers are the worst... don't worry, your car doesn't have one. Here read this: http://www.planetsoarer.com/resonator/resonator.html (Everyone read it! There WILL be a test!)