checking out an 86 mk3 tomorrow

[cre]

Originally Posted by cvbikeguy

hey Cre,

do you know alot about timing? i was told i should time my vehicle for my driving style while its in this stage. is there a way to do that without getting adjustable cams?

Well, you could get custom cams built.... lol... other than that, no, adjustable gears are it and they're somewhat of waste on a N/A, IMO.

Yeah, that freeze plug sure wasn't helping.... I'm surprised you never saw any coolant leaking.


600+ HP on a stock HG?! That'd be the day... well, maybe it'd last for 2, but that's about it. I wouldn't trust the stock HG for more than about 350RWHP... not if I wanted it to last (and that's pushing it as far as I'm concerned).

Block and HG measurements are here:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...sket+thickness
As you don't know what's been previously taken off the block and head your machinist will need to measure both and you'll need to select a suitable head gasket after.

NOTE: Composite (OEM) head gaskets are NOT reusable!!!!

[cvbikeguy]

oh man... so we got to the machine shop and it turns out that the head is too warped and they cant shave any more off of the head. soooooo

i need a new head. found one on ebay for $400 but thats the cheapest i have found.

and the build goes on....

[cvbikeguy]

ahhh cre you have convinced me to go MHG. im gonna get the HKS one. i talked to the shop and let him know, he said he just did a supra motor before mine and hes the best shop in town. thing better be smooth.

he said hes also going to bore out the cylinders more for higher compression
(since they are f'ed up anyways). im really tring to make sure i dont miss any mods that i could be doing at this stage since everything is taken apart, i just wish i had more money. i think the MHG is good too in case i do the turbo conversion later. but im seeing keeping it N/A as a challenge. believe it or not when i first got the car i only wanted a turbo and to hear the BOV. lol

[cre]

Careful... you have to have a PERFECT head and block deck for the HKS Stopper or it WILL blow! My recommendation would be the Cometic, still needs a VERY smooth surface but it is much more forgiving.

As for raising the compression ratio... it's a waste of money. There's almost no power to be had from it even if you bore it as far as is physically possible. Personally, I'd go for a lower CR and start working on a build which could support a turbo.... it's up to you though.

Originally Posted by cvbikeguy

(since they are f'ed up anyways). im really tring to make sure i dont miss any mods that i could be doing at this stage since everything is taken apart, i just wish i had more money. i think the MHG is good too in case i do the turbo conversion later. but im seeing keeping it N/A as a challenge. believe it or not when i first got the car i only wanted a turbo and to hear the BOV. lol

I don't think you're planning this out as well as you think you are.... just because a MHG is reusable doesn't mean it will work fine on another engine... the other engine may need a thinner or thicker gasket.

If you're planning on turboing this engine you need to do research into mods which will benefit the forced induction setup. If you are looking to go for an all-motor build (no turbo, no supercharger, etc.) than you need to plan your mods accordingly there too... there aren't a whole lot of internal engine mods which work well in BOTH situations other than forged internals (but you still need to pick because you'll need different pistons for each application), head porting and valve job and (argueably) custom cams.... but in the best situation you buy cams depending on the build.

I do not recomment all-motor builds on the 7M-GE.... I know a few people who have spent an absolute fortune on their N/As to not even break 300HP at the wheels. They're not novices either and we're not talking stock-ish build... I'm talking completely custom cams and crankshafts, all forged internals, stupid high compression ratios, port and polish jobs, larger valves... the 7M is a GREAT engine for forced induction... it's miserable as a N/A; A fact which I finally accepted about two years ago.

For the replacement head check out local salvage yards where you pull it yourself.... around here they charge $25 to $50 for a complete head... even if you go through 3 duds before buying a good one you're still coming out on top as opposed to what you're likely to pay on Craigslist or Ebay.

[cvbikeguy]

Careful... you have to have a PERFECT head and block deck for the HKS Stopper or it WILL blow! My recommendation would be the Cometic, still needs a VERY smooth surface but it is much more forgiving.

*researching* yea i see they have had some good reviews, thanks Cre. yea after all of this id rather be safe than sorry.

If you're planning on turboing this engine you need to do research into mods which will benefit the forced induction setup. If you are looking to go for an all-motor build (no turbo, no supercharger, etc.) than you need to plan your mods accordingly there too... there aren't a whole lot of internal engine mods which work well in BOTH situations other than forged internals (but you still need to pick because you'll need different pistons for each application), head porting and valve job and (argueably) custom cams.... but in the best situation you buy cams depending on the build.

man i hate being a newb. i guess there is a reason why most people has a tubo'd 7m.

I do not recomment all-motor builds on the 7M-GE.... I know a few people who have spent an absolute fortune on their N/As to not even break 300HP at the wheels. They're not novices either and we're not talking stock-ish build... I'm talking completely custom cams and crankshafts, all forged internals, stupid high compression ratios, port and polish jobs, larger valves... the 7M is a GREAT engine for forced induction... it's miserable as a N/A; A fact which I finally accepted about two years ago.

im totally open to all advice. especially in the key state my engine is in (torn apart) bust since i am going with the rebuild, wont turboing the engine add on another $1G on this build? if not then im not totally opposed to it. honestly id rather turbo this engine now that i know the ins and outs of it. i know that its reliable especially with the metal head gasket, arp botls, new lines and all.

For the replacement head check out local salvage yards where you pull it yourself.... around here they charge $25 to $50 for a complete head... even if you go through 3 duds before buying a good one you're still coming out on top as opposed to what you're likely to pay on Craigslist or Ebay.

none of the reliable shops have any its all good. id rather be safe. sadly all the places here are extremely ghetto.

BTW Cre thanks for pretty much guiding me in this build. ive search like a mother but theres still alot i need to learn.

[cvbikeguy]

as im finishing your reply i found this post

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/1492687460.html

[cre]

I very strongly recommend you find a complete MKIII with turbo from the factory... A GE-T build isn't the easiest/most reliable thing; There's a lot you're going to need otherwise and you'll be piecing things together for a while. (trust me on this )

If you are still interested in going GE-T aka N/A-T then read through this thread:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34560

My car is a N/A-T. I'm running a stock 7M-GE with a stock CT-26 turbo, custom full flow oil cooler with thermostat, 7M-GE electronics with a MAFT Pro for fuel, timing and boost control and AFM deletion, LC-1 wideband (for tuning and open loop AFR tracking via the MAFT Pro), and a matched set of injectors (less than .5% variance on average; actually, they're rated 520cc/min at 45psi but I'm running closer to the stock fuel pressure). I'm running a stock composite HG with ARP head bolts torqued to 75ft lbs. I'm still running on the W58 (I don't expect it to last too long).

All in all I've got a lot invested in just the conversion.... then there's the supporting mods and maintenance.

There are a lot of people who think "Oh, I'll just mount the turbo, swap injectors and add an intercooler."; sadly, their setups don't often last... sometimes they do, but I think that's more a matter of luck.

I don't expect my setup to last more than a few years. If/when it does die I'll either buy a complete GTE and swap over what I want to keep; Or I'll move on completely and put the MKIII behind me.

Oh, I'm not walking you through this.... I'm just bored...

[cvbikeguy]

Originally Posted by cre

I very strongly recommend you find a complete MKIII with turbo from the factory... A GE-T build isn't the easiest/most reliable thing; There's a lot you're going to need otherwise and you'll be piecing things together for a while. (trust me on this )

If you are still interested in going GE-T aka N/A-T then read through this thread:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34560

My car is a N/A-T. I'm running a stock 7M-GE with a stock CT-26 turbo, custom full flow oil cooler with thermostat, 7M-GE electronics with a MAFT Pro for fuel, timing and boost control and AFM deletion, LC-1 wideband (for tuning and open loop AFR tracking via the MAFT Pro), and a matched set of injectors (less than .5% variance on average; actually, they're rated 520cc/min at 45psi but I'm running closer to the stock fuel pressure). I'm running a stock composite HG with ARP head bolts torqued to 75ft lbs. I'm still running on the W58 (I don't expect it to last too long).

All in all I've got a lot invested in just the conversion.... then there's the supporting mods and maintenance.

There are a lot of people who think "Oh, I'll just mount the turbo, swap injectors and add an intercooler."; sadly, their setups don't often last... sometimes they do, but I think that's more a matter of luck.

I don't expect my setup to last more than a few years. If/when it does die I'll either buy a complete GTE and swap over what I want to keep; Or I'll move on completely and put the MKIII behind me.

Oh, I'm not walking you through this.... I'm just bored...

haha yea ive been reading that forum non stop since your last post.my head is going to pop. i knew it wasnt going to be a simple bolt on but i figure it would be better since im going to have a rebuilt motor. and yea like you were saying i was going to do this until it gives then just buy a completed gte and rebuild that. the only thing is i should figure this out now before i start putting the whole car back together. i think i can afford it but the shop has already worked on the block so i cant just ditch then get a full gte. so its either...

keep it N/A and thow pointless mods in it? or...
turbo it and make sure its done right and baby it to hell so nothing blows?

[cre]

Okay, then I would talk to them about having the turbo's oil drain location drilled in the block; on the N/A it's not drilled. Draining to the oil pan, as most people do, isn't the best way to do it... it works if you get the drain in precisely the right location, but since they're already at work on it. The oil supply isn't a big deal.

How you proceed from here is really up to you. If you want to take the time and convert it to a N/A-T then go for it; It is fun.

If you're building for it you can build it reliably... lower the compression ratio, drill the stock oil drain location, flush the block so that you're sure the oil supply passage for the turbo is free of obstruction, upgrade to GTE injectors or better, add a good fuel controller and get a good safe tune running. Just take your time and you can definitely build a very reliable N/A-T. I'd start with the engine itself and then worry about upgrades a bit at a time. You will lose power going to a lower compression before you add the turbo, but that's alright... The turbo is the last thing you'll add, BTW.

[cvbikeguy]

*sigh* your totally right. seems liek the best way to do this is to wait till im done having the N/A. dont put too much money into the engine and work on other things. then when i feel like having more power i should swap in the gte and have it rebuilt. less head ache. less stress. less money too.