wth happened?
 

I have two wtf's w/ my mk3...

Yesterday, I went to take the car to get lunch, first drive of the day, and like the rest of the cold days this season, the car didn't want to start right up... but unlike the other times (when it finally does start up and idle at 1k rpm) yesterday it seemed a little more stubborn and when she finally did turn over, the RPM's shot up to 3500-4k and I heard a loud whizz, like the sound you'd hear from a kazoo... both the sound and high rev were very momentarily, and for all I know the whizz could have been from the spike in RPMs... it's the spike in RPMs that has me thrown, I give a little gas when she's not starting, but don't flood the engine let alone give it that much throttle...


Today, omw to take it to get radiator fixed, my temp gauge needle FINALLY went up past half way (I didn't think it ever did or was capable of it) and after getting up to about 3/4's to hot, it finally dropped back down to half way... I dunno wth to think here, it dropped pretty quick, quicker than I'd imagine the cooling system to reduce temp if the thermostat opened..

could either of these issues be caused by pinholes in the top radiator tank (that's what's getting fixed as I type this)? or is this likely I'm gunna have a new problem as soon as I get her back?

The spike in RPM is probably due to the engine starting while the starter was still engaged... the high pitched noise is often indicative of the starter being engaged with little to no load. Had the engine been running before the starter was engaged you would have heard that wonderful ginding noise we all love so much... I wouldn't worry about this one occurrence but do fix the root of the problem. I suspect the cold start injector's tip is probably clogged.... if it is it is often just caked with oil and grime and can be washes with a semi soft brass brush and some carb or brake cleaner.

The temperature thing could have been due to the coolant leak, definitely keep a close eye on it. The temp gauge in the MKIII isn't a linear display and the center actually represents a broad range of temperatures... if it finally jumps above the halfway mark, the temp has increased a significant amount. There are a thousand possibilities for why this happened, but as you're having one known problem with the system repaired now, you should wait and see how it behaves afterward. Just keep a close eye on it and if it does jump again (for no reason... if you're racing ant it's 110? outside, that's something else) then stop the car and let it idle until the temp drops; try not to ever let it remain in an elevated state. How high on the gauge is too high isn't something I can tell you though.

cool, thanks cre... I was hoping the rpm was just from the gas I gave and the noise I heard was the starter, just as you said... I just got the call saying 25% of the radiator was blocked by buildup and now that is cleared and the holes have been sealed... they've had her running for a while and the needle still staying under half way... so that's better than what I've seen since I've owned the car and I'm hoping that's all it was this afternoon... just really threw me cause I know the function of the thermostat, and I can (in theory) see how the needle might drop after the temp gets hot enough... but it dropped from 3/4 or 7/8's to the top right down to 1/2 way like I had shut off the ignition and the needle free fell... just didn't seem right to me... my luck, would have been something that got freed from the radiator and worked it's way into the system before the radiator was repaired... this way it can come back around and clog it up once it's fixed... :rant2: LoL... kidding, I hope that's not it anyways...

Well, the thermostat could have stuck... if that happens again I'd replace it (if they didn't just do that today).

The temp gauge on our cars doesn't and shouldn't move a whole lot. Once it reaches normal operating temp you shouldn't ever really see it move a lot unless you are really pounding on the car. The needle shouldn't be higher or lower while sitting at a stop light than it is while driving down the highway. I thoroughly dislike the way the stock gauge works, but I suppose they did it that way so people aren't always freaking out.

Install a coolant filtration system and don't ever worry about blockages again... or t least not as much. ;)

I actually was hoping the over heating issues was the thermostat a few weeks ago, so I had the hoses and thermostat replaced then as well.. I'll look into the filtration.. didn't know something like that existed, but can imagine it'd be pretty beneficial... especially in an older engine where junk is likely to be swept away by the fluid in the system... only to build up elsewhere... (god forbid it's the rotor of a water pump)

It also serves to reduce wear... little debris that is too small to clog gets pushed through constantly ans slowly eats away at things like the water pump impeller.

They make coolant filter kits, but a brilliant man on another forum (goes by JetJock and he's frighteningly brilliant) pointed out that all you need is a water/fuel separation mount (it's a boating thing. ;) ) and a coolant filter; They both use the same head and that mount is less expensive. Then you just get some additional hose and run the line that goes to the throttle body through the filter too. Replace the filter after you flush your coolant (once a year or so). A remote oil filter mount and an oil filter will work too (make sure there's no drain back valve in the filter), but the coolant filter is built a little differently to suit the task better.

Just a quickie, not sure where you took the car for the rad/ job, but did you make them aware of the bleed procedure for this car? i.e. lifting the front way in the air...

That's not a special Toyota proceedure by any means. A clean and readily flowing cooling system should bleed the air out pretty quickly. I never "burp" my system. I just fill the overflow completely, turn the heater on and let the car warm up a idle... then let it cool back down. I'll check it again in a week after that unless I hear the token "waterfall in the dash" sound indicating more air still moving through the heater core.

This explains why after my thermostat and hoses were replaced during my flush and also after this radiator repair, I had to add more coolant to the system after driving it just a little bit... I was wondering about that..

Cre: you mentioned something about running your heater... is this a normal step in the process? what if my heater's not working cause I have no water in the heater hose? Last I cracked that open, it had nothing more than a mm deep puddle about 2 cm long and 1cm wide..

The heater is supplied hot water via the coolant system... it's plumbed right into it. If your heater system is dry and the rest of the system is still full of coolant you've got bigger problems than burping a few cc's of air.

You always have to top off the coolant after a flush and fill. There will ALWAYS be air trapped in the system, doesn't matter what car it is.

what problems could I have if there's no water in the heater hose? cause short of no working heater, I don't see, feel or hear any other issues...:crazy2:

If the coolant system was full and your heater hoses didn't have any coolant in them you'd be looking at some very serious blockages... frankly, I don't see how it's possible for the system to get that clogged up as it would have to be clogged on both sides. How did you determine the heater circuit was empty? And was the coolant system actually full?

Lack of hot air when the heater is on is usually due to the VSV for the heater control valve dying. It's easily bypassed until it can be replaced... it's been posted on here before, try searching for the specifics if you think that may be relevant.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...a/P1000055.jpg

Once I removed the "Prestone" cap in the picture, I could see inside to an empty hose w/ the puddle I described in an earlier post.. dunno if it helps, hopefully I'm lookin in the wrong hose cause I don't want any more blockages... I've spent almost $500 just trying to get my cooling fixed... atm, it's better than it ever has been, but if that IS the heater hose and it SHOULD have water in it, I'd have to guess that my cooling SYSTEM is still in need of TLC... :\ :'(

That's the highest point in the cooling system.... it's more likely that you had air trapped in the system and it collected there once the vehicle was off and cold. (It's also the best place to "burp" the system if you need to. ;) )

so I might just need to run the car and see if I feel the fluid going thru there? That'd be awesome... and I don't know if it helps, but the only time I've felt my heater pump out any warm/hot air was immediately following my coolant system flush the first time around... after I parked the car and turned her off, the heater went back to blowing air... whatever temp is in the atmosphere at the time.

update:
started her up, cranked the heat to 85 on high and started by feeling the two coolant hoses plugged into the VSV... it really did not feel like there was any water going thru the hose into the vsv, which would explain why the return hose is also dry and why the heater core isn't working right... sounds like blockage? or is that the effect caused by a vsv w/o vaccuum? fun stuff.. :\

Feeling the hoses? Eh? What you just squeezing them? :p

You can bypass the VSV so the HCV is open full time by running the vacuum line that runs to the VSV along the firewall directly to the HCV's diaphragm (the bell looking thingy). If you need a diagram, I may be able to find one, but it's a very simple task.

If the HCV is closed only a trickle of water will flow through the heater core; So, naturally, you wouldn't feel much of anything.

yup.. nail on the head there... after running out and getting lunch (at 5:30pm), and warming up the engine and cooling system, I tried again, same result... blew chilled air and felt no water flowing (when feeling for vibrations) and also felt no water pressure (squeezing the hose).... however, when I lift the valve under the HCV (yup, I gotta do it manually, so sounds like vacuum line), I feel slight vibrations and can only assume that's water finally moving thru the system. Sadly, I can't hold that valve up long enough to warm my cab and confirm... so perhaps rerouting the vaccuum hose will prevent that task (holding the valve open) for me. Thanks again Cre...

As long as the diaphragm isn't cracked, rerouting the vacuum hose will keep the valve open for you... no holding it while curled up under the hood while someone else drives required. :naughty:

I have heat!!! Soon as I bypassed that vsv and turned the engine on... boom! that lever got sucked soo far up it disappeared... much further than I could have ever pushed it up by hand... and took no more than 2 minutes once the sun was out... thanks for the help and advice once again Cre.. now I no longer need to endure muscle spasms in my lower back from shivering soo much... :redx:

Wow, that heat can start kickin some ass... finally gets to the point I have to lower my windows and let some heat out... even if I don't have the heater on, the warm air is still processed and pushed thru the vents...

Also, since I've bypassed the VSV, whenever I run my car at cold operating temp I get a gurgling sound that sounds like water falling in on itself thanks to air bubbles formed in the lines... I'm guessing this is the infamous "Waterfall" noise that typically comes from behind the firewall? I only hear it when I accelerate and only hear it when the engine is cold..

Apparently I have the wrong type of radiator cap for the sealed system and it does not want to suck fluid back from the reserve tank once pressures have decreased. This is what I was told, not what I observe. I observe the levels in my radiator and reserve tank to remain the same any time the car is cold. So as I'd like to believe the air bubbles are created from the contraction of water as it cools, I kind of feel that needs to be dismissed by the fact that the reserve tank doesn't horde, consume or contribute any extra fluid to the system..

Please refresh my memory... the 'waterfall' sound is indicative of a BHG? or could it be something to do with the heater core?

Waterfall is indicative of air in the coolant system; It does not in any way tell you where it is coming from.

The decrease or absence of the waterfall sounds once the car is warm is either due to the coolant expanding to the point that the air can be and is pushed out of the system via the radiator cap or it is being whipped into the coolant and as such simply doesn't exists in large enough pockets for you to hear the coolant trying to push past it.

If you don't trust the radiator cap, get it tested. ;) If you replace it, test the new one. Toyota only sells two different types of cap for the MKIII, they work a little differently but the both behave the same way. The only other difference is the mount and sealing area.

So should I be concerned about the waterfall thing? I have that noise too at start-up and then I believe it's usually gone. Everything works fine, the car runs and boosts like it should, I do notice that I have to fill up the coolant reservoir about once a month or so. I do notice a couple of drops of what appears to be coolant after I turn off the car, just haven't had time to see where that is coming from. Thanks for the info.

If there's a leak find it and fix it.