wth happened?

Krem · 12-07-2009, 07:56 PM

I have two wtf's w/ my mk3...

Yesterday, I went to take the car to get lunch, first drive of the day, and like the rest of the cold days this season, the car didn't want to start right up... but unlike the other times (when it finally does start up and idle at 1k rpm) yesterday it seemed a little more stubborn and when she finally did turn over, the RPM's shot up to 3500-4k and I heard a loud whizz, like the sound you'd hear from a kazoo... both the sound and high rev were very momentarily, and for all I know the whizz could have been from the spike in RPMs... it's the spike in RPMs that has me thrown, I give a little gas when she's not starting, but don't flood the engine let alone give it that much throttle...

Today, omw to take it to get radiator fixed, my temp gauge needle FINALLY went up past half way (I didn't think it ever did or was capable of it) and after getting up to about 3/4's to hot, it finally dropped back down to half way... I dunno wth to think here, it dropped pretty quick, quicker than I'd imagine the cooling system to reduce temp if the thermostat opened..

could either of these issues be caused by pinholes in the top radiator tank (that's what's getting fixed as I type this)? or is this likely I'm gunna have a new problem as soon as I get her back?

cre · 12-07-2009, 09:20 PM

The spike in RPM is probably due to the engine starting while the starter was still engaged... the high pitched noise is often indicative of the starter being engaged with little to no load. Had the engine been running before the starter was engaged you would have heard that wonderful ginding noise we all love so much... I wouldn't worry about this one occurrence but do fix the root of the problem. I suspect the cold start injector's tip is probably clogged.... if it is it is often just caked with oil and grime and can be washes with a semi soft brass brush and some carb or brake cleaner.

The temperature thing could have been due to the coolant leak, definitely keep a close eye on it. The temp gauge in the MKIII isn't a linear display and the center actually represents a broad range of temperatures... if it finally jumps above the halfway mark, the temp has increased a significant amount. There are a thousand possibilities for why this happened, but as you're having one known problem with the system repaired now, you should wait and see how it behaves afterward. Just keep a close eye on it and if it does jump again (for no reason... if you're racing ant it's 110? outside, that's something else) then stop the car and let it idle until the temp drops; try not to ever let it remain in an elevated state. How high on the gauge is too high isn't something I can tell you though.

Krem · 12-07-2009, 09:28 PM

cool, thanks cre... I was hoping the rpm was just from the gas I gave and the noise I heard was the starter, just as you said... I just got the call saying 25% of the radiator was blocked by buildup and now that is cleared and the holes have been sealed... they've had her running for a while and the needle still staying under half way... so that's better than what I've seen since I've owned the car and I'm hoping that's all it was this afternoon... just really threw me cause I know the function of the thermostat, and I can (in theory) see how the needle might drop after the temp gets hot enough... but it dropped from 3/4 or 7/8's to the top right down to 1/2 way like I had shut off the ignition and the needle free fell... just didn't seem right to me... my luck, would have been something that got freed from the radiator and worked it's way into the system before the radiator was repaired... this way it can come back around and clog it up once it's fixed...

LoL... kidding, I hope that's not it anyways...

cre · 12-07-2009, 09:33 PM

Well, the thermostat could have stuck... if that happens again I'd replace it (if they didn't just do that today).

The temp gauge on our cars doesn't and shouldn't move a whole lot. Once it reaches normal operating temp you shouldn't ever really see it move a lot unless you are really pounding on the car. The needle shouldn't be higher or lower while sitting at a stop light than it is while driving down the highway. I thoroughly dislike the way the stock gauge works, but I suppose they did it that way so people aren't always freaking out.

cre · 12-07-2009, 09:34 PM

Install a coolant filtration system and don't ever worry about blockages again... or t least not as much.

Krem · 12-07-2009, 10:15 PM

I actually was hoping the over heating issues was the thermostat a few weeks ago, so I had the hoses and thermostat replaced then as well.. I'll look into the filtration.. didn't know something like that existed, but can imagine it'd be pretty beneficial... especially in an older engine where junk is likely to be swept away by the fluid in the system... only to build up elsewhere... (god forbid it's the rotor of a water pump)

cre · 12-08-2009, 12:34 AM

It also serves to reduce wear... little debris that is too small to clog gets pushed through constantly ans slowly eats away at things like the water pump impeller.

They make coolant filter kits, but a brilliant man on another forum (goes by JetJock and he's frighteningly brilliant) pointed out that all you need is a water/fuel separation mount (it's a boating thing.

) and a coolant filter; They both use the same head and that mount is less expensive. Then you just get some additional hose and run the line that goes to the throttle body through the filter too. Replace the filter after you flush your coolant (once a year or so). A remote oil filter mount and an oil filter will work too (make sure there's no drain back valve in the filter), but the coolant filter is built a little differently to suit the task better.

MA70-3.0GT · 12-08-2009, 03:27 PM

Just a quickie, not sure where you took the car for the rad/ job, but did you make them aware of the bleed procedure for this car? i.e. lifting the front way in the air...

cre · 12-08-2009, 07:23 PM

That's not a special Toyota proceedure by any means. A clean and readily flowing cooling system should bleed the air out pretty quickly. I never "burp" my system. I just fill the overflow completely, turn the heater on and let the car warm up a idle... then let it cool back down. I'll check it again in a week after that unless I hear the token "waterfall in the dash" sound indicating more air still moving through the heater core.

Krem · 12-08-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MA70-3.0GT

Just a quickie, not sure where you took the car for the rad/ job, but did you make them aware of the bleed procedure for this car? i.e. lifting the front way in the air...

This explains why after my thermostat and hoses were replaced during my flush and also after this radiator repair, I had to add more coolant to the system after driving it just a little bit... I was wondering about that..

Cre: you mentioned something about running your heater... is this a normal step in the process? what if my heater's not working cause I have no water in the heater hose? Last I cracked that open, it had nothing more than a mm deep puddle about 2 cm long and 1cm wide..

12-07-2009, 07:56 PM	#1
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	wth happened? I have two wtf's w/ my mk3... Yesterday, I went to take the car to get lunch, first drive of the day, and like the rest of the cold days this season, the car didn't want to start right up... but unlike the other times (when it finally does start up and idle at 1k rpm) yesterday it seemed a little more stubborn and when she finally did turn over, the RPM's shot up to 3500-4k and I heard a loud whizz, like the sound you'd hear from a kazoo... both the sound and high rev were very momentarily, and for all I know the whizz could have been from the spike in RPMs... it's the spike in RPMs that has me thrown, I give a little gas when she's not starting, but don't flood the engine let alone give it that much throttle... Today, omw to take it to get radiator fixed, my temp gauge needle FINALLY went up past half way (I didn't think it ever did or was capable of it) and after getting up to about 3/4's to hot, it finally dropped back down to half way... I dunno wth to think here, it dropped pretty quick, quicker than I'd imagine the cooling system to reduce temp if the thermostat opened.. could either of these issues be caused by pinholes in the top radiator tank (that's what's getting fixed as I type this)? or is this likely I'm gunna have a new problem as soon as I get her back?

12-08-2009, 03:27 PM	#8
MA70-3.0GT 12psi boost Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Crewe, England Posts: 356	Just a quickie, not sure where you took the car for the rad/ job, but did you make them aware of the bleed procedure for this car? i.e. lifting the front way in the air... __________________ '89 MA70 Supra GT aero 3.0turbo JDM, Rebuilt motor, K&N intake, 3" stainless turbo-back. New turbo and braided line kit... '89 Honda NC27 400, NC23 cams, open pipe, PC36a shock & possibly Showa USD forks... '83 Yamaha 29R XJ750E-II, number 69 off the line, only runner in the country? Original except Koni shocks '95 Honda PC26 CB500R, Winter hack, hateful, trying to sell it I'm not paranoid, they really ARE after me!!!

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12-07-2009, 09:20 PM	#2
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	The spike in RPM is probably due to the engine starting while the starter was still engaged... the high pitched noise is often indicative of the starter being engaged with little to no load. Had the engine been running before the starter was engaged you would have heard that wonderful ginding noise we all love so much... I wouldn't worry about this one occurrence but do fix the root of the problem. I suspect the cold start injector's tip is probably clogged.... if it is it is often just caked with oil and grime and can be washes with a semi soft brass brush and some carb or brake cleaner. The temperature thing could have been due to the coolant leak, definitely keep a close eye on it. The temp gauge in the MKIII isn't a linear display and the center actually represents a broad range of temperatures... if it finally jumps above the halfway mark, the temp has increased a significant amount. There are a thousand possibilities for why this happened, but as you're having one known problem with the system repaired now, you should wait and see how it behaves afterward. Just keep a close eye on it and if it does jump again (for no reason... if you're racing ant it's 110? outside, that's something else) then stop the car and let it idle until the temp drops; try not to ever let it remain in an elevated state. How high on the gauge is too high isn't something I can tell you though.

12-07-2009, 09:28 PM	#3
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	cool, thanks cre... I was hoping the rpm was just from the gas I gave and the noise I heard was the starter, just as you said... I just got the call saying 25% of the radiator was blocked by buildup and now that is cleared and the holes have been sealed... they've had her running for a while and the needle still staying under half way... so that's better than what I've seen since I've owned the car and I'm hoping that's all it was this afternoon... just really threw me cause I know the function of the thermostat, and I can (in theory) see how the needle might drop after the temp gets hot enough... but it dropped from 3/4 or 7/8's to the top right down to 1/2 way like I had shut off the ignition and the needle free fell... just didn't seem right to me... my luck, would have been something that got freed from the radiator and worked it's way into the system before the radiator was repaired... this way it can come back around and clog it up once it's fixed... LoL... kidding, I hope that's not it anyways...

12-07-2009, 09:33 PM	#4
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Well, the thermostat could have stuck... if that happens again I'd replace it (if they didn't just do that today). The temp gauge on our cars doesn't and shouldn't move a whole lot. Once it reaches normal operating temp you shouldn't ever really see it move a lot unless you are really pounding on the car. The needle shouldn't be higher or lower while sitting at a stop light than it is while driving down the highway. I thoroughly dislike the way the stock gauge works, but I suppose they did it that way so people aren't always freaking out.

12-07-2009, 09:34 PM	#5
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Install a coolant filtration system and don't ever worry about blockages again... or t least not as much.

12-07-2009, 10:15 PM	#6
Krem 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 167	I actually was hoping the over heating issues was the thermostat a few weeks ago, so I had the hoses and thermostat replaced then as well.. I'll look into the filtration.. didn't know something like that existed, but can imagine it'd be pretty beneficial... especially in an older engine where junk is likely to be swept away by the fluid in the system... only to build up elsewhere... (god forbid it's the rotor of a water pump)

12-08-2009, 12:34 AM	#7
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	It also serves to reduce wear... little debris that is too small to clog gets pushed through constantly ans slowly eats away at things like the water pump impeller. They make coolant filter kits, but a brilliant man on another forum (goes by JetJock and he's frighteningly brilliant) pointed out that all you need is a water/fuel separation mount (it's a boating thing. ) and a coolant filter; They both use the same head and that mount is less expensive. Then you just get some additional hose and run the line that goes to the throttle body through the filter too. Replace the filter after you flush your coolant (once a year or so). A remote oil filter mount and an oil filter will work too (make sure there's no drain back valve in the filter), but the coolant filter is built a little differently to suit the task better.

12-08-2009, 07:23 PM	#9
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	That's not a special Toyota proceedure by any means. A clean and readily flowing cooling system should bleed the air out pretty quickly. I never "burp" my system. I just fill the overflow completely, turn the heater on and let the car warm up a idle... then let it cool back down. I'll check it again in a week after that unless I hear the token "waterfall in the dash" sound indicating more air still moving through the heater core.