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-   -   I just got a supra turbo i need help please!!! (http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/mkiii-supra/15822-i-just-got-a-supra-turbo-i-need-help-please.html)

bradenman1 01-25-2010 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso (Post 77825)
You already have the valve covers off, so get a GOOD torque wrench and check the head bolt torque. IIRC, stock bolts should be good for ~72 ft. lb., far better than the original 58. Take a good look at a bolt head and see if it says SPS or ARP. Those are aftermarket bolts and will take a little more.

Are the head bolts the big 18mm hex bolts in the spark plug area??

Benesesso 01-25-2010 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 77829)
Are the head bolts the big 18mm hex bolts in the spark plug area??
No, they are 10 mm socket head "capscrews"--there are 14 of them. You can buy a 1/2" drive metric socket with a male 10mm section, or just buy a 1/2" 6 point metric socket in 10 mm and a 10 mm Allen wrench. Cut ~3/4"+ off the long end and use that piece.

bradenman1 01-25-2010 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso (Post 77830)
No, they are 10 mm socket head "capscrews"--there are 14 of them. You can buy a 1/2" drive metric socket with a male 10mm section, or just buy a 1/2" 6 point metric socket in 10 mm and a 10 mm Allen wrench. Cut ~3/4"+ off the long end and use that piece.
do i have to take the intake manifold off to do this?? i didn't look really closely but i didn't see any bolts or anything. if i can do it without taking the intake manifold off i would but that manifold looks like hell to get through and id rather not go through it right now lol

Benesesso 01-25-2010 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 77834)
do i have to take the intake manifold off to do this?? i didn't look really closely but i didn't see any bolts or anything. if i can do it without taking the intake manifold off i would but that manifold looks like hell to get through and id rather not go through it right now lol
No, but I think you have to pull the cams. They're easy, and you should install a new cam drive belt then too. Do a 'net search on how you have to line up the marks on the cam pulleys--it's no big deal.

bradenman1 01-25-2010 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso (Post 77838)
No, but I think you have to pull the cams. They're easy, and you should install a new cam drive belt then too. Do a 'net search on how you have to line up the marks on the cam pulleys--it's no big deal.
I may have to do that.. just more time I have to wait and more money to spend : ( I'm still in school andwork every day other than Sunday ill have to wait a few more weeks to get the cam belt and a torque wrench

bradenman1 01-25-2010 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso (Post 77838)
No, but I think you have to pull the cams. They're easy, and you should install a new cam drive belt then too. Do a 'net search on how you have to line up the marks on the cam pulleys--it's no big deal.
I may have to do that.. just more time I have to wait and more money to spend : ( I'm still in school andwork every day other than Sunday ill have to wait a few more weeks to get the cam belt and a torque wrench

cre 01-25-2010 06:08 PM
Depending on the size of the socket you may be able to tighten the head bolts without pulling the cams, you'll just need to turn them periodically to let the socket clear. I've done it a couple times.

When you torque the head bolts down remember to do it in multiple passes and also make sure to loosen any head bolts which are not already loose by backing them off 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

bradenman1 01-25-2010 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77879)
Depending on the size of the socket you may be able to tighten the head bolts without pulling the cams, you'll just need to turn them periodically to let the socket clear. I've done it a couple times.

When you torque the head bolts down remember to do it in multiple passes and also make sure to loosen any head bolts which are not already loose by backing them off 1/4 to 1/2 turn.
Ill have to take a look at them tonight I guess. You said to re torque them to 75 ft/lbs.

bradenman1 01-25-2010 07:57 PM
Ohh I have another question. Is there a tool I need to get to install the new exhaust manifold studs to safely get them in without damaging the threads? Or should I just use the two nut method and try to torque them to 29 ft/lbs

cre 01-25-2010 09:58 PM
I've only ever replaced two studs... if you're going to have problems it will be with the threads themselves. Do your best to get the studs seated as well as possible, but don't worry about torquing the studs by themselves.

bradenman1 01-26-2010 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77892)
I've only ever replaced two studs... if you're going to have problems it will be with the threads themselves. Do your best to get the studs seated as well as possible, but don't worry about torquing the studs by themselves.
Ok cool that makes me a little more at ease. I was just woundering because the onesthat were on there either backed them selves out of the head or were not seateds properly

cre 01-26-2010 02:44 AM
If they haven't backed out and the gasket hasn't disintegrated then you may have a problem. When the studs pull free (which, sadly, isn't too uncommon) it's the threads in the head which go... not the studs. It'd be great if it were simply a matter of replacing the studs as with the head you have to drill and install helicoils.

bradenman1 01-26-2010 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77921)
If they haven't backed out and the gasket hasn't disintegrated then you may have a problem. When the studs pull free (which, sadly, isn't too uncommon) it's the threads in the head which go... not the studs. It'd be great if it were simply a matter of replacing the studs as with the head you have to drill and install helicoils.
luckely only one came out with the threads i think. i looked ast them and i ran another stud through it to see if the threads were still going to work and it tightened right in maybe i wont have to drill. whats your opinion on this matter. only one didn't come out with the nut and its the one that looks like it striped out a bit on the inside all the others are good and intact

WOOOT i should get most of my parts tomorrow from toyota

oh and the gasket was pretty decenigrated/melted on the side that was really loose

cre 01-26-2010 06:32 AM
I wouldn't count on the stud where the threads pulled out holding... You're best off helicoiling it while you've got things apart... helicoiling with the head already install sucks though. Which stud? Rear, center or front area? You can try just installing it and holing for the best, but don't be surprised if it fails.

Disintegrated gaskets cause a fair number of people to believe that the threads have given up when it's just that there's no longer any pressure against the nut when they remove them... that's the only reason I asked.

bradenman1 01-26-2010 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77926)
I wouldn't count on the stud where the threads pulled out holding... You're best off helicoiling it while you've got things apart... helicoiling with the head already install sucks though. Which stud? Rear, center or front area? You can try just installing it and holing for the best, but don't be surprised if it fails.

Disintegrated gaskets cause a fair number of people to believe that the threads have given up when it's just that there's no longer any pressure against the nut when they remove them... that's the only reason I asked.
Its the 2nd top bolt from the back. Ill take pictures tonight. The bolts backed out and the nuts were seased to the studs. I guess I should have left that stud alone and replaced the other 6.

When I'm re torquing the head bolts is there a coolant drane plug I need to pull out on the block to drane the water jackets? And also I only had trouble getting to one stud but if I have to turn the cams how do I do it

cre 01-26-2010 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 77934)
Its the 2nd top bolt from the back. Ill take pictures tonight. The bolts backed out and the nuts were seased to the studs. I guess I should have left that stud alone and replaced the other 6.
I find that the ones in the back are hell to helicoil with the head in... I've done it and I hate it. Some people don't have as much trouble. A 90? drill adapter may make the job easier, otherwise, pull the charcoal canister out and I hope you don't have ABS. Just take it nice and slow. Make sure all of the sizes are right too and use a stop on the drill bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 77934)
When I'm re torquing the head bolts is there a coolant drane plug I need to pull out on the block to drane the water jackets? And also I only had trouble getting to one stud but if I have to turn the cams how do I do it
Nah, draining won't accomplish anything really. If there's coolant between the HG and the mating surfaces it's not going to drain out.

Pull the EFI fuse (which you should have already done, remove the fan, put a breaker bar with socket on the bolt for the harmonic balancer (the main pulley) and turn.... I'm assuming you haven't pulled the timing belt.

bradenman1 01-26-2010 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77947)
I find that the ones in the back are hell to helicoil with the head in... I've done it and I hate it. Some people don't have as much trouble. A 90? drill adapter may make the job easier, otherwise, pull the charcoal canister out and I hope you don't have ABS. Just take it nice and slow. Make sure all of the sizes are right too and use a stop on the drill bit.



Nah, draining won't accomplish anything really. If there's coolant between the HG and the mating surfaces it's not going to drain out.

Pull the EFI fuse (which you should have already done, remove the fan, put a breaker bar with socket on the bolt for the harmonic balancer (the main pulley) and turn.... I'm assuming you haven't pulled the timing belt.
No I havnt pilled the fuse or the timing belt out I wasn't planning on taking it out. I may just leave it as is if its going to take that much more time and money. I'm planing on having it rebuilt within a year or 2 any way it should last. I'm staying stock boost untill I have money for a replacement 7mgte

cre 01-26-2010 06:39 PM
I was saying that's how you do it if the timing belt is still installed... pull the EFI fuse and then rotate the crank manually. It's cake... no reason not to do it.

ALWAYS pull the EFI fuse (if not the positive battery cable) when you work on the engine!

bradenman1 01-26-2010 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77954)
I was saying that's how you do it if the timing belt is still installed... pull the EFI fuse and then rotate the crank manually. It's cake... no reason not to do it.

ALWAYS pull the EFI fuse (if not the positive battery cable) when you work on the engine!
Well iv had the cable undone sence I started working on the car. Ill look tonight and see if I can turn it with the fan in. I have some swivil saockets that may work but I don't have a brakerbar. Could I use a wratchet and the socket that fits it?

So I need a 10mill hex socket and probably hex wrench, a torque wrench, and a brakerbar

Edit: I just got a call from power fab and my turbo is in!!!! Ill be over to pick it up tonight hopefully and I believe that toyota is suposed to have my parts als : )

btwilson86 01-27-2010 03:05 AM
I turn my crank with a 3/8" drive ratchet and a deep well 19mm socket. As long as the car isn't in gear, the engine is fairly easy to turn over this way. And it can be done with the fan installed, but it is quite a bit easier with it off.

bradenman1 01-27-2010 03:23 AM
I think iv decided to install a helicoil or another size stud in the place of the stud that backed out the threads. Id rather not buy the $70 kit to use only one of the of them. Any suggestions?

Also the guy at power fab said that i shouldnt loosen the head bolts i should just torque them to about 60 ft/lbs in the proper sequence. he said that loosening them could strip them and also cause the gasket to not seat right and create a leak.

well i took more pics:

the threads that striped

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0797.jpg

The bolt with the threads on it

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0810.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0812.jpg

My Brand new CT26!!! $703.88 later
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0786.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0789.jpg

My wrapping job to keep dirt out while i have it sitting until i get more $$$
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...1/100_0813.jpg

bradenman1 01-27-2010 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwilson86 (Post 77973)
I turn my crank with a 3/8" drive ratchet and a deep well 19mm socket. As long as the car isn't in gear, the engine is fairly easy to turn over this way. And it can be done with the fan installed, but it is quite a bit easier with it off.
awesome that makes it easier for me once again lol less to take out and less to put back in. : ) shouldn't be more than a month untill i get my baby back

ohh i forgot to ask is it ok to use sandpaper to clean up the exhaust manifold and the mating surface on the head? there a little bit of grime that i cant quite get off with the sos pads

cre 01-27-2010 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwilson86 (Post 77973)
I turn my crank with a 3/8" drive ratchet and a deep well 19mm socket. As long as the car isn't in gear, the engine is fairly easy to turn over this way. And it can be done with the fan installed, but it is quite a bit easier with it off.
Pulling the spark plugs makes hand turning the crank even easier... and safer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 77974)
Also the guy at power fab said that i shouldnt loosen the head bolts i should just torque them to about 60 ft/lbs in the proper sequence. he said that loosening them could strip them and also cause the gasket to not seat right and create a leak.
He right about concerns about compromising a composite head gasket... it's a real concern, but it's far less likely the less you loosen the fasteners... that's why you want to back them off as little as possible. Start with just a quarter turn.

He's wrong about stripping the threads of the head bolts or the CAST IRON block... and his recommended torque value is pretty much stock: 58ft lbs... ;)

He's wrong about not breaking them loose. Do some research on striction and talk to a mechanical engineer about it's effect on torque values. If you love uneven torque and wildly inaccurate readings go for it.

Further more, as there's no lubricant on the threads they're going to have a LOT more friction across all of the connecting surface area... you could honestly torque them past 90 ft lbs and still not reach the same actual clamping force you'll get if you were reinstalling them properly lubed with moly grease and torqued to 75ft lbs. You can help smooth things out a *little* by spraying a GOOD penetrating oil at the base of the head bolt before and after cracking it loose... just soak it... and NO WD-40!

Here's some info I posted about retorquing: http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/77288-post10.html Also, everyone needs to keep in mind that the torque value you use on the head bolts or studs depends a LOT on what you're using for lubrication.

Yes, you may use sandpaper to clean up the mating surface for the exhaust mani... use a sanding block though and don't sand any more than absolutely necessary. I would use 400 grit sand paper.

bradenman1 01-27-2010 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 77980)
Pulling the spark plugs makes hand turning the crank even easier... and safer.



He right about concerns about compromising a composite head gasket... it's a real concern, but it's far less likely the less you loosen the fasteners... that's why you want to back them off as little as possible. Start with just a quarter turn.

He's wrong about stripping the threads of the head bolts or the CAST IRON block... and his recommended torque value is pretty much stock: 58ft lbs... ;)

He's wrong about not breaking them loose. Do some research on striction and talk to a mechanical engineer about it's effect on torque values. If you love uneven torque and wildly inaccurate readings go for it.

Further more, as there's no lubricant on the threads they're going to have a LOT more friction across all of the connecting surface area... you could honestly torque them past 90 ft lbs and still not reach the same actual clamping force you'll get if you were reinstalling them properly lubed with moly grease and torqued to 75ft lbs. You can help smooth things out a *little* by spraying a GOOD penetrating oil at the base of the head bolt before and after cracking it loose... just soak it... and NO WD-40!

Here's some info I posted about retorquing: http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/77288-post10.html Also, everyone needs to keep in mind that the torque value you use on the head bolts or studs depends a LOT on what you're using for lubrication.

Yes, you may use sandpaper to clean up the mating surface for the exhaust mani... use a sanding block though and don't sand any more than absolutely necessary. I would use 400 grit sand paper.
ok well ill be looking in to that alot tomorrow im off to sleep and sadly i cant install my mani or turbo untill i get some kind of new threads going and a stud that will fit it... ohh and toyota has my turbo/exhaust manifold gasket and the exhaust manifold stay bolts on back order untill god knows when hopefully ill find out tomorrow or so.

ohh and im being forced to buy new coolant lines as well to keep the warranty on the turbo. ill do some looking for that tomorrow as well

so far im getting that oil line kit from drift motion and ill be looking for a new coolant line kit

thanks ALOT guys you are making a this small nightmare easier for me with this very good information

bradenman1 01-28-2010 03:40 PM
I just discovered toyotapart.com they have my parts put no pictures wich is kinda bad. I can get my turbo waterlines for like $32 instad of 50 something.

cre 01-28-2010 05:34 PM
Champion Toyota's online shop has pictures, it doesn't give you part numbers though. Just ordered several things from them yesterday. www.toyotaworld.com, then click on the "buy parts online" link.

Otherwise you can use the catalog here to find part numbers... Takes some getting used to.

bradenman1 01-28-2010 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 78039)
Champion Toyota's online shop has pictures, it doesn't give you part numbers though. Just ordered several things from them yesterday. www.toyotaworld.com, then click on the "buy parts online" link.

Otherwise you can use the catalog here to find part numbers... Takes some getting used to.
Cool ill have to check it out and see if I can find the coolant lines and that ic pipe for the turbo I got a quote for it from toyota $146 for the damn thing. Ill see what I can find iv been having a little trpuble with saome of the part numbers on the parts list thing you sent me a link to. Toyota said they cross reff to other things ill get it figured out

Edit: I tried the site with the parts numbers from that catalog and they did not show up with anything on the champion toyota site. It worked on toyotapart.com but I couldn't get pics of anything I wanted. There were 2 different water lines that came up when I searched the part number for the one I need. One had almost the same msrp as toyotas price quote it was off by like 10 cents so I'm assuming that one is it

cre 01-28-2010 07:25 PM
I know I've already posted those part numbers check if the post is in another one of your threads. Then just enter the part numbers at that website to get prices... Champion is a dealership out of TX, but they're much less expensive for most things.

bradenman1 01-28-2010 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 78051)
I know I've already posted those part numbers check if the post is in another one of your threads. Then just enter the part numbers at that website to get prices... Champion is a dealership out of TX, but they're much less expensive for most things.
yeah the links you gave me in an earlier post was that catalog the numbers worked at the toyota dealer but they are not working on the champion toyota site. ill try on my computer at home and not my phone right now ill put in an edit if anything changes.

Edit: nope still wont come up i guess ill have to bite the bulit and drive back to the toyota dealer and have them order them for me when i get my paycheck

cre 01-29-2010 08:45 AM
Toyota part numbers work at Champion... You have to specify the Make that they're for.

I just pulled up the IC hose: 17341-42060 Champions sells it for $112 versus the MSRP of $145.... I'd order a universal IC piping kit at that point. sheesh...

Their system's working fine for me, so I don't know if you're cutting and pasting additional characters into it or what's up... post the part numbers back up and I'll check them too. You can call Champion and order too. ;)

bradenman1 01-29-2010 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre (Post 78103)
Toyota part numbers work at Champion... You have to specify the Make that they're for.

I just pulled up the IC hose: 17341-42060 Champions sells it for $112 versus the MSRP of $145.... I'd order a universal IC piping kit at that point. sheesh...

Their system's working fine for me, so I don't know if you're cutting and pasting additional characters into it or what's up... post the part numbers back up and I'll check them too. You can call Champion and order too. ;)
Ok ill post them once i get to school. I have them written down. i specified the make and model and everything i wasnt having any luck.

bradenman1 01-29-2010 02:21 PM
Ok here are the part numbers:

Turbo water pipe:
16027

Nuts for the water pipe:
90179-06013

The IC pipe I need is:
17886

I also need the studs that go into the turbo water line that bolt it up to the turbo. I'm not sure if there bolts or if there's 2 studs and 2 nuts that go on over it. Power fab took it off before they shipped in my turbo

I may end up getting a universal kit for the IC piping. I'm not to sure how to set it up properly or what size pipes to run. Did you use the stock metal elbows (the ones below the intake and what not) when you installed your IC piping?

bradenman1 01-29-2010 05:07 PM
Your part number worked. The one I got off the parts catalog didn't ... idk if I'm doing something wrong or they have different part numbers that I don't know

Green7mgte 01-29-2010 05:50 PM
if we can change the name of the first post to something descriptive to this thread i vote for a sticky. lots of good info in here and pictures! perfect candidate for sticky or faq section!

btwilson86 01-29-2010 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradenman1 (Post 78114)
Turbo water pipe:
16027

Nuts for the water pipe:
90179-06013

The IC pipe I need is:
17886
Use these numbers:

Turbo Water Pipe:
16027-42012

Nuts for the Water Pipe:
90179-06013

IC Pipe:
17341‑42060

All of these part numbers worked on Champions site for me

bradenman1 01-29-2010 07:56 PM
Quote:
if we can change the name of the first post to something descriptive to this thread i vote for a sticky. lots of good info in here and pictures! perfect candidate for sticky or faq section!
ill see what i can do. i agree i have been given tons of very good information in this thread im glad someone could help me id be stuck without this forum right now : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by btwilson86 (Post 78131)
Use these numbers:

Turbo Water Pipe:
16027-42012

Nuts for the Water Pipe:
90179-06013

IC Pipe:
17341‑42060

All of these part numbers worked on Champions site for me
cool! thanks alot ill look these parts up and probably order the water pipe for sure but may have to wait for the IC set.

My dads coming over to check out the threads on my head for the exhaust manifold and if he thinks they are too bad were going to find a M10x1.25 Helicoil kit to fix it up. ill have some more pics soon of my exhaust manifold going back together and some of the parts i bought

thanks again guys youv been helping me through every stem of the way

kamikazemkiii 01-29-2010 10:28 PM
You could have gotten a upgraded ct26 for what you paid for a stock one.

bradenman1 01-30-2010 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikazemkiii (Post 78155)
You could have gotten a upgraded ct26 for what you paid for a stock one.
I doubt it. none of my internals were good it was completly trashed on the inside. it would have costed me more to rebuild it than to get a new one the upgrade from drift motion is 560 IF you have good internals and i didn't. i could move the shaft around in circles and in and out pretty far. it wouldnt even spool in neutral if i gassed it. it had 237k miles on the turbo

bradenman1 01-30-2010 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benesesso (Post 78154)
Get the 10 mm X 1.5 helicoils instead. Fine threads have no place in cast iron and aluminum.
i would have to get a different stud if i did that i have 7 brand new stock ones

ohh and i ordered the water pipe, the studs for it, and the nuts that go on the studs today should be here some time next week : )

bradenman1 02-08-2010 01:33 PM
Hey guys sorry its been so long sence I posted anything iv had som problems at home that has limited my time and prevented me from working any on the car. Ill be taking some pictures and posting them today after school. Hopefully we can revive this thread : )


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