Best questions ever. could really use awnsers lol.

livelaughslide · 02-26-2010, 03:10 AM

putting the head back on my turbo supra, could use a couple of pointers..

ill get pics up soon im a new tech a tire kingdom makin good money so the supra is gettin the attion it needs finally.

i bought a non turbo head, its at the machine shop now gettin re-surfaced and new valve seals then ill measure the valve cover to deck clearence and take it away from stock.

wait.... what is the stock distance?
and do i have to make it up ina gasket or can i run higher compression?

and whats the tourqe for arp head bolts etc.

and whats better turbo cams or na cams i have both and there going in a turbo car. any pointers on putting this thing back togeather is GREATLY apprechated. Thank you guys i miss my car.. just want it back.

cre · 02-26-2010, 03:18 AM

The machine shop should be able to tell you what they removed, but as the head may have been worked on previously, yes, an absolute measurement is best.... I'll look it up and get back to you on it.

Stick with the GTE cams in a GTE.

Just follow the TSRM to the T... and DON'T FORGET THE RTV at the block to lower timing plate union!!!!

cre · 02-26-2010, 04:06 AM

Oh, and the stock HG thickness is 1.37mm compressed. It's better to run stock compression or, if you're increasing the boost, an even lower compression; That's only possible with a metal head gasket though and the block deck MUST be resurfaced and both head and block must be SMOOTH. MHG's require a smoother finish than you want with a composite HG.

Don't forget that when you swap the cams you'll have to reshim for proper clearances... do both intake and exhaust. The intake cam is the only one that's different between the GE and GTE; The Exhaust cams are the same.

livelaughslide · 02-27-2010, 03:15 AM

the head is resurfaced but i was just gonna take a cookie pad to the block. dude this is insane thats all i did on the 351 and the ka and worked fine.. ill take you word for it thoe. since the block is in the car cre, how do i resurface it???

And why do they make a gasket thinner than 1.3? and if the stock is 1.3 then do i buy a 1.4 (just a example) and should i buy a stopper or bead type? the over

300 bucks if its more then 1.2 fuck. man i need help bad.. wtf is shim the cams? ive never heard of that just lube the seat and do the rotation just like the head.. fuck man i really need help.

im sorry for so many questions but this is rediclous. im buildin it for boost its a turbo originally man.... fuck. depressed as hell.

cre · 02-27-2010, 04:49 AM

First and foremost: RELAX

The short and direct answer is that the factory finish wasn't smooth enough, why would a 20yo deck which has in most specimens warped enough to be out of spec for a composite HG be suitable? Also, from what I recall it's also got thinner cylinder walls than the 351... dunno about the KA.

You can try to get away without having the deck cut but it usually doesn't turn out well. Get a machinist's straight edge and check the block for flatness as per Toyota's specs. If there is ANY pitting, I'd flat out forget it and just pull the engine. Then, if it is truly flat, hit it with a precision lapping plate and various grades of diamond lapping paste until it's smooth like glass; Lap it until you can't feel anything with your fingernails and then continue to lap for another day.

Doing it this way I wouldn't trust the finish to be smooth enough to use a Stopper HG... Per HKS you need a RA of 20 or less and for some reason a lot of shops have a hard time managing that. If you go this route I would go with a MHG from Cometic... they seem to be the most forgiving and should work quite well. YOu also need to make sure the head is VERY smooth. With a composite HG like the stocker you actually want texture, not the case with a MHG.

There are a couple reasons for going with a thinner HG than stock and a couple I'd speculate on. The most common is it's a cheap (but very ill advised) way of increasing an engine's compression... Another situation where I've heard of them being used is where you want as few layers as possible (the thicker the HG the more layers it has) and then the compression is brought down with different pistons.... Then there's also the situation where the head's volume has been increased and you want to bring the CR back up.

Yes, shims. The valves are opened buy the cams pressing down on the lifters or buckets... on top of the bucket are shims which are used to adjust the amount of space between the bucket and the cams. Too much space and the valve doesn't open as much as it could nor does it open for its full duration; Too little and the valve may not close completely. In the extreme in either case you risk the cam lobes coming into contact with the shim. You also need to measure the cams... or at least measure the lobes. The details of all of this are in the Toyota Service and Repair Manual; I STRONGLY recommend you buy a copy. For now, you'll find an online copy here: http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/

cre · 02-27-2010, 05:15 AM

Factory head thickness (from the valve cover landing to the base) is 116mm.

02-26-2010, 03:10 AM	#1
livelaughslide 3" Exhaust Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: cocoa Posts: 64	Best questions ever. could really use awnsers lol. putting the head back on my turbo supra, could use a couple of pointers.. ill get pics up soon im a new tech a tire kingdom makin good money so the supra is gettin the attion it needs finally. i bought a non turbo head, its at the machine shop now gettin re-surfaced and new valve seals then ill measure the valve cover to deck clearence and take it away from stock. wait.... what is the stock distance? and do i have to make it up ina gasket or can i run higher compression? and whats the tourqe for arp head bolts etc. and whats better turbo cams or na cams i have both and there going in a turbo car. any pointers on putting this thing back togeather is GREATLY apprechated. Thank you guys i miss my car.. just want it back. __________________ 88, targa top, 5 speed turbo, tein coilovers, 4 inch hks exhaust, ebay front mount, hks turbo timer.

02-26-2010, 03:18 AM	#2
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	The machine shop should be able to tell you what they removed, but as the head may have been worked on previously, yes, an absolute measurement is best.... I'll look it up and get back to you on it. Stick with the GTE cams in a GTE. Just follow the TSRM to the T... and DON'T FORGET THE RTV at the block to lower timing plate union!!!! __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-26-2010, 04:06 AM	#3
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Oh, and the stock HG thickness is 1.37mm compressed. It's better to run stock compression or, if you're increasing the boost, an even lower compression; That's only possible with a metal head gasket though and the block deck MUST be resurfaced and both head and block must be SMOOTH. MHG's require a smoother finish than you want with a composite HG. Don't forget that when you swap the cams you'll have to reshim for proper clearances... do both intake and exhaust. The intake cam is the only one that's different between the GE and GTE; The Exhaust cams are the same. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-27-2010, 03:15 AM	#4
livelaughslide 3" Exhaust Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: cocoa Posts: 64	jesus christ!? the head is resurfaced but i was just gonna take a cookie pad to the block. dude this is insane thats all i did on the 351 and the ka and worked fine.. ill take you word for it thoe. since the block is in the car cre, how do i resurface it??? And why do they make a gasket thinner than 1.3? and if the stock is 1.3 then do i buy a 1.4 (just a example) and should i buy a stopper or bead type? the over 300 bucks if its more then 1.2 fuck. man i need help bad.. wtf is shim the cams? ive never heard of that just lube the seat and do the rotation just like the head.. fuck man i really need help. im sorry for so many questions but this is rediclous. im buildin it for boost its a turbo originally man.... fuck. depressed as hell. __________________ 88, targa top, 5 speed turbo, tein coilovers, 4 inch hks exhaust, ebay front mount, hks turbo timer.

02-27-2010, 04:49 AM	#5
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	First and foremost: RELAX The short and direct answer is that the factory finish wasn't smooth enough, why would a 20yo deck which has in most specimens warped enough to be out of spec for a composite HG be suitable? Also, from what I recall it's also got thinner cylinder walls than the 351... dunno about the KA. You can try to get away without having the deck cut but it usually doesn't turn out well. Get a machinist's straight edge and check the block for flatness as per Toyota's specs. If there is ANY pitting, I'd flat out forget it and just pull the engine. Then, if it is truly flat, hit it with a precision lapping plate and various grades of diamond lapping paste until it's smooth like glass; Lap it until you can't feel anything with your fingernails and then continue to lap for another day. Doing it this way I wouldn't trust the finish to be smooth enough to use a Stopper HG... Per HKS you need a RA of 20 or less and for some reason a lot of shops have a hard time managing that. If you go this route I would go with a MHG from Cometic... they seem to be the most forgiving and should work quite well. YOu also need to make sure the head is VERY smooth. With a composite HG like the stocker you actually want texture, not the case with a MHG. There are a couple reasons for going with a thinner HG than stock and a couple I'd speculate on. The most common is it's a cheap (but very ill advised) way of increasing an engine's compression... Another situation where I've heard of them being used is where you want as few layers as possible (the thicker the HG the more layers it has) and then the compression is brought down with different pistons.... Then there's also the situation where the head's volume has been increased and you want to bring the CR back up. Yes, shims. The valves are opened buy the cams pressing down on the lifters or buckets... on top of the bucket are shims which are used to adjust the amount of space between the bucket and the cams. Too much space and the valve doesn't open as much as it could nor does it open for its full duration; Too little and the valve may not close completely. In the extreme in either case you risk the cam lobes coming into contact with the shim. You also need to measure the cams... or at least measure the lobes. The details of all of this are in the Toyota Service and Repair Manual; I STRONGLY recommend you buy a copy. For now, you'll find an online copy here: http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/ __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-27-2010, 05:15 AM	#6
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Factory head thickness (from the valve cover landing to the base) is 116mm. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

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