Why Not A 300hp NA Stock?

907mge · 06-20-2010, 04:04 AM

As I was pondering the complex workings of my 2zzge I was thinking a straight 6 is no more than a four cylinder with 2 more cylinders. So if the 2zz is 1.8L and produces 180hp factory why could a 300hp 3L not be made. Of coarse that will never happen but think of the sound of a factory na running at 8k rpm.

This maybe in the wrong section so i'm sure it might get moved.

cre · 06-20-2010, 05:54 AM

They have been... Toyota just got out of the game (after doing a LOT of the homework for the other guys). As to why everyone's left the I6 behind; Part of the problem is the size... a V8 with similar chamber sizes requires less length and nowadays produces enough power to satisfy most consumers... so the I6 gets kicked to the curb.

wstanek · 06-20-2010, 01:46 PM

I 6 ftw =D

907mge · 06-20-2010, 09:31 PM

Is a I6 better than a v6 of the same displacement? Besides that a I6 seems to be simplier. I know alot of big diesels use the I6 comfiguration.

btwilson86 · 06-20-2010, 11:44 PM

I believe that I6 engines tend to have more torque compared to similar V6 engines

Supra_Freak_7m · 07-04-2010, 04:41 PM

If you were to run a 7m to 8k you better pack your pistons with parachutes so you can catch them on the way back down. The problem with that in relation to a 7m is piston velocity and with it tensile load on the connecting rod. Piston velocity is already very high in the 7m to the the various revisions in the M block being bored ( thus adding a heavier projectile) and stroked (incresing piston velocity) so many times that it is very near it's physical limits. Keep in mind that connecting rod tensile loads increase with the differance in rpm squared, meaning that the difference between 6000-7200 would yield a 144% increase in tensile load. so going up from 6400 to 8000 is a 256% increase in tensile load to the connecting rod. That is why it wouldn't work specifically with the 7m, However, on a more modern engine it would be possible. Though I think a lighter forged piston and a larger bore but shorter stroke would be the way to go

907mge · 07-04-2010, 09:15 PM

I was not talking about a 7m, since they are not a vvtli engine. My 2zz runs at around 8k rpm stock safely. I was just saying about how a I6 is like a 4cyl with 2 more pistons.

wstanek · 07-04-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 907mge

Is a I6 better than a v6 of the same displacement? Besides that a I6 seems to be simplier. I know alot of big diesels use the I6 comfiguration.

and you know why the big diesels use that configuration? because it fucking rocks!!!!

Supra_Freak_7m · 07-05-2010, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 907mge

I was not talking about a 7m, since they are not a vvtli engine. My 2zz runs at around 8k rpm stock safely. I was just saying about how a I6 is like a 4cyl with 2 more pistons.

It's cool, I wasn't bashing ya, just throwing a little science in there for you. Personally I'd like to have a 4age that would rev to 13k but the motor would only last 40k miles at best, but it would be fun....

wstanek · 07-05-2010, 03:14 PM

yeah that would be cool a inline 4 revvintg to 13k haha u would be screaming down the street literally! =D

06-20-2010, 04:04 AM	#1
907mge 20psi boost Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Harrisburg Posts: 759	Why Not A 300hp NA Stock? As I was pondering the complex workings of my 2zzge I was thinking a straight 6 is no more than a four cylinder with 2 more cylinders. So if the 2zz is 1.8L and produces 180hp factory why could a 300hp 3L not be made. Of coarse that will never happen but think of the sound of a factory na running at 8k rpm. This maybe in the wrong section so i'm sure it might get moved.

06-20-2010, 05:54 AM	#2
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	They have been... Toyota just got out of the game (after doing a LOT of the homework for the other guys). As to why everyone's left the I6 behind; Part of the problem is the size... a V8 with similar chamber sizes requires less length and nowadays produces enough power to satisfy most consumers... so the I6 gets kicked to the curb. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

06-20-2010, 11:44 PM	#5
btwilson86 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Billings, Montana Posts: 1,034	I believe that I6 engines tend to have more torque compared to similar V6 engines __________________ 1989 7MGTE R154 Targa Top White Package w/Blue Interior Driftmotion 57trim CT26, Upgraded Intercooler, 2.25" Hard Pipes, 3" Turbo Back Exhaust with Test Pipe, HKS VPC w/GM 3 bar MAP sensor, APEXi S-AFC, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, ProSport EVO Series Boost / Fuel Pressure / AFR gauges, Lotek a Pillar Gauge Pod, HKS Type 0 Turbo Timer, Eibach Lowering Springs, Tokico Illumina II TEMS struts, custom powder coated Motegi Racing TrakLite wheels

07-04-2010, 04:41 PM	#6
Supra_Freak_7m Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Montana Posts: 40	If you were to run a 7m to 8k you better pack your pistons with parachutes so you can catch them on the way back down. The problem with that in relation to a 7m is piston velocity and with it tensile load on the connecting rod. Piston velocity is already very high in the 7m to the the various revisions in the M block being bored ( thus adding a heavier projectile) and stroked (incresing piston velocity) so many times that it is very near it's physical limits. Keep in mind that connecting rod tensile loads increase with the differance in rpm squared, meaning that the difference between 6000-7200 would yield a 144% increase in tensile load. so going up from 6400 to 8000 is a 256% increase in tensile load to the connecting rod. That is why it wouldn't work specifically with the 7m, However, on a more modern engine it would be possible. Though I think a lighter forged piston and a larger bore but shorter stroke would be the way to go __________________ 1987 Toyota Supra 7MGTE AUTO 1987 Toyota Supra 7MGE MANUAL 1990 Toyota Supra 7MGTE AUTO-> MANUAL

07-05-2010, 03:14 PM	#10
wstanek 3" Exhaust Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Stoney Creek Posts: 178	yeah that would be cool a inline 4 revvintg to 13k haha u would be screaming down the street literally! =D __________________ 1987 N/A 7MGE manual transmission slight rod knock never driven it yet... legally~

06-20-2010, 01:46 PM	#3
wstanek 3" Exhaust Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Stoney Creek Posts: 178	I 6 ftw =D

06-20-2010, 09:31 PM	#4
907mge 20psi boost Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Harrisburg Posts: 759	Is a I6 better than a v6 of the same displacement? Besides that a I6 seems to be simplier. I know alot of big diesels use the I6 comfiguration.

07-04-2010, 09:15 PM	#7
907mge 20psi boost Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Harrisburg Posts: 759	I was not talking about a 7m, since they are not a vvtli engine. My 2zz runs at around 8k rpm stock safely. I was just saying about how a I6 is like a 4cyl with 2 more pistons.

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