7mge build with some questions.

[87hilux7mge]

hey everyone, new here, looking for some info/input. now, first off, no i dont own a supra anymore. used to have an 89 turbo in high school, but have since gone thru several other cars. currently i have an 87 toyota 4x4 pickup, that is what the 7mge im building is going in. these arent swap specific questions, just motor questions.

first off, ill give you a parts list so you know what im working with.

bored/honed/decked jdm block- .50mm (.020) over
PnP/milled jdm head
comp valve springs
BC 268 cams (stage 2)
adj. cam gears
NPR pistons, rings (.020) over, balanced
eagle H beam rods, balanced
polished crank, balanced
king main/rod bearings
header (hey, was free )
ATI damper
about 9.4-9.5 compression
stage 2 6 puck clutch kit

will have rebuilt w56 with 4.10's running 32" tires with a locked rear.

now i know not everyone is a fan of the GE, but please dont flame me saying i should get a turbo. ive done a crap load of research already and used the search function here and gotten some good info. the reason i dont have a turbo, is because i picked up this entire drive train originally for 100 bux (motor, tranny, harness, ecu and various other parts) not to mention a complete spare motor out of a 90 cressida, with harness, for 85 dollars.

i want to get into an EMS but i cannot find one for the GE, ive checked megasquirt and AEM and they both only offer for the GTE as ive seen.

heres where im gonna get ripped.. i have a custom supercharger setup (that i built, yes i can hear you all laughing) for my old 91 firbird formula w/ a 305. this kit can be adjusted with my pulleys to put out 5, 8 or 10 psi. i plan on putting this on the GE down the road running 5 psi to start, mounted where the AC was and running it thru an intercooler.

my question is, should i (can i rather) convert this all too GTE electronics, get the AEM ems and run it N/A till i finish fabbing the supercharger brackets, then tune it to run with the supercharger? AEM has told me they dont make an EMS for the GE, megasquirt wont pickup, email back etc.

the only other option i can think of is getting an apexi NEO, but i dont think that will allow enough tuning, especially with the cams and all. i wont be tuning for peak hp (not my style) as im an "under the curve/average hp" kinda guy. ive built quite a few engines, mostly carbed, but this is the first time ive considered an aftermarket ems, and the more advanced import build ive done.

i have about 3k into the motor so far, and can go about another 2-2.5k, but hope i wont have to do that much. if i can get the AEM ems to work with the GE electronics or even convert to GTE, i know where i can get the AEM for 500 bux. if not i can get the neo for 150 and hope for the best.

neway, hit me up with any kind of info you got, i appreciate it. and please, dont just flame me saying "go turbo!" ive decided to do the supercharger, cuz its unique and i like the power curve it gives me.

thanks!

[Green7mgte]

all that is pretty useless for a 7mge. 7mgte is the way to go. turbo baby

[btwilson86]

Originally Posted by 87hilux7mge

please dont flame me saying i should get a turbo

Originally Posted by 87hilux7mge

and please, dont just flame me saying "go turbo!"

Originally Posted by Green7mgte

all that is pretty useless for a 7mge. 7mgte is the way to go. turbo baby

Way to go, Green.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but you should be able to run the AEM with the GE if you run all GTE electronics on the engine.

[Green7mgte]

lol oops.


walks away in shame..
well in my defense it wasnt a flame. I just read the first part thinking its some kid who dosnt know crap and yadda yadda you know the rest.
but actually reading the post. pretty intelligent.. my fault.

[cre]

I don't know about the AEM, but if that doesn't pan out I'd look into the MAFT Pro.

[87hilux7mge]

green, apology accepted. not a "kid" but not an old man either. been into engines for about 10 years, just always stuck with a "tune by screw driver" carb setup, except for the turbo 93 altima i had (jim wolf ecu retune).

anyway, i havent checked maftpro yet, ill look into that, im gonna call AEM again today as well as APEXi, see if they say anything promising about swapping to gte electronics. everyone said that the turbo electronics wont run in N/A form. i dont see why, its would just run out of boost for the time being, and in my mind, probably be more efficient due to the multi coil design, full electronic timing control, etc. combine that with the AEM tuning capability (or maftpro) and i think i may be able to at least get it running decent, till the S/C goes on.

i have to get the motor in the bay and see how i can mount the S/C, its a lil tight but i think ill have enough room in the ac position, if i make the custom brackets and remove the stock one. im going to try to retain the stock bracket, but may come to down to a bust.

neway, ill be able to use the extra block to fit it all too once i can get some measurements.

so im guessing the consensus is: SAFC Neo is out (not enough capability), AEM is possible if i can swap to gte electronics, and maftpro is worth looking at/talking to someone about.

any other comments? sorry if i had a digi cam id take some pics and my damn celly camera broke 2 months ago (run over in parking lot)

once again, thanks for any comments, aside from "go turbo" ones, haha.

[btwilson86]

My friend with a 84 Toy pickup has a 7MGTE in it, and you're right; it's a tight fit.

You can run a GE on GTE electronics. GTE uses higher flow injectors, and the computer is obviously expecting to see boost at some point, so fuel curves might be off. But since you're thinking of running a standalone AEM, you should be able to tune out the differences for now and adjust accordingly once you get the S/C on it. So I don't think you'd have a problem (this is purely speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me)

[87hilux7mge]

bt, thanks for the reply, and after looking at some options, the aem is a good system, but id have to get so much other stuff and still end up using the turbo afm. i did some more searching, and talked to a couple buddies round the spokane area. one of which used to build high hp supras and make alot of HP parts for them back in the early-mid 90's. he now makes M and JZ powered buggies and 4x4 trucks.

he suggested going with an SDS (simple digital systems) EFI system which he has used since the early 90s with great results. i checked it out, the EM-4 6F eliminates the afm, running a MAP system. comes complete and the wiring harness only has like 8 wires. tunes with a handheld and can handle up to 30 psi (3 stages: 15, 20 and 30 psi) also runs 3, dual point coil pack system.

looks like a legit system, much more complete than the aem, although it is 1700 bux. ill have to make a crank sensor setup, but my buddy said hed help with that and its not too hard.

prolly will go with this, as it will be easy to tune and it also offers on the fly adjustment. with this in the n/a version, i should see around 200-220 rwhp, and about 185-190 with 4wd. after the super charger, at 5 psi i figure a 20% increase (on my firebird it was 30%) so 230-260ish. 7-8 psi pulley will probably yield the best drivability to power ratio. if i wanna go to drag nights ill toss the 10psi pulley on and get close to 300.

neway, i believe this system comes with everything i need besides injectors (some stock gte ones should be fine under boost) the map sensor, knock sensor, and a couple other small things.

if anyone has had experience with this hit me up.

heres the link to their site: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

[cre]

The GE also uses a very different timing map... also, the big difference in base fuel maps means you'll be pulling a lot of fuel which means the ECU will be trying to add large amounts as it thinks you're getting less air than the map was tuned for. Stand alone or a piggyback which provides more flexibility than just an SAFC or NEO are the best solutions.... with a piggyback timing control is a must (or add an MSD 6 to the mix). The GTE AEM with the rest of the GTE electronics swapped over would be fine as well but you'll be doing a little more work getting a base tune setup as you're less likely to find someone else whose don it to copy from.

MAFT Pro is a piggyback which offers timing control, MAP/IAT (aka speed density), Boost control, AFR tracking (must also add a wideband like the LC-1 to use this feature).

I've heard of SDS (known of them for a long time), but I've never known anyone who's run one... most of the people I talk to are either very old school or young and think that system is too old school and limited. If their support is good and you can find an existing user base to talk to when you run into problems, then go for it and let us know how it work out. It appears that it can't be connected to a laptop for data logging and programming... this is a serious negative in my book. The small two line black and white LCD won't give you a graph of a chosen value so you can catch the small hiccups... It won't let you review the data from several sensors side by side on a scalable timeline... That's a deal breaker in my book.

Are you looking for easy or cheap?

Screwdrivers to tune a carb? Wow you're old.

[87hilux7mge]

haha, ok no that old, mid 20's. usually thats all i ever needed, bit driver, a wrench, and some noodling. squeezed out 400+ hp out of my home built 9.5:1 350 sbc. tuned it myself and spend 75 bux for two dyno runs, first one hit 389 at 5600, second one hit 402 at 5900.

yea having a graphable set for sensor side by side would be nice, but im looking for easy/functional. they seem to have a great customer base and awesome feedback, as well as alot of vehicles (planes, boats, cars, trucks and motorsports) that hold some impressive records using their tuning.

i did just read through their tech article and they now offer data logging on their systems, downloadable thru the tuner hooked to computer. but nothing that is instantly graphable on the tuning pad. i looks like a great system to me.

i will be calling them tomorrow to ask a few questions, but im fairly set on that system after researching it. simple enough for me and its an improvement over the stock system. figure ill spend about 1800-2000 for the system and a knock sensor, 2 bar map sensor etc. so far i have a shopping list up to 3700, but i may knock a couple things off that i dont really need.

neway, ill try to get some pics up of the build soon, and if anyone has anymore comments id be happy to hear them.

thanks for your input cre and bt. guess when i get it done im off to the dyno, ill be sure to snag some numbers for you in N/A and SC form when i can.