89 turbo supra 5 speed dies in mid shift???? - Page 2

cre · 02-13-2011, 10:29 AM

RANT:
No.... the thing I like about pulling up next to a high dollar car is kicking their ass and it not sounding at all like I'm trying. It gives people chills, says I just won your girlfriend and I've still got more. I've had it done to me by a couple VERY cool (all under the hood) cars and I've done it to some as well. Besides, a large amount of people think nothing good about those who are doing it just for sound (and yes, many of us do know when you come driving up if it's doing you any good or just some stupid ricer punk mod to look more like Mr. Diesel or that blonde guy... or someone from Initial D if that's your thing....

). But, to each his own; I'll still help where I care to.
/RANT

Running dual will still leave you running rich at the shifts (and thus still cost you power and throttle response). A dual setup probably isn't your thing anyway as it cuts the volume of the whistle in half. Getting the electronics to live happily with whatever arrangement you're running is the key here and you may also find that there's more power to be had from a good tune; The stock fuel maps are quite conservative and rich.

You really have three choices:
1) IF you're more concerned about actual power and efficiency, tune it.

2) IF you're worried about drive-ability and cost along with power, get the recirculation kit or a BPV and get over your love for Big Bird.

3) IF you really don't give a crap about any of the above other than somewhat decent dive-ability then run a dual setup and be done. It will still bog, possibly stumble, but shouldn't stall.... take your current problem and cut it in half.

I suppose you could install a "bad boy" switch. Install both BOV and BPV Connect a VSV to a PWM and place the VSV on the signal line to the BOV. When you want to act tough flip the switch to turn on the BOV; When you're ready to drive aggressively turn it off and you turn the BOV off, leaving the BPV running solo. (You could also turn off the BOV when a cop gets behind you this way.)

There are other ways to deal with this but the cost just keeps getting higher. The issue lies with both the ECU and AFM (this problem affects both VAFM and KVAFM setups).

jtown125 · 02-13-2011, 09:00 PM

I just bought a new bov and recirc kit...

ill let ya know how it goes...

it will probably be the week after next before anything gets here anyway....

cre · 02-13-2011, 10:32 PM

Way to cave to the peer pressure...

(yes, I know I'm a dick)

Did you look for a recirc kit for your HKS? They're out there.

Are you going to just run recirc or a BOV/BPV combo?

In the end you should still consider saving up for a good fuel controller and some tuning.. you'll be able to run whatever BOV/BPV you like and you should be able to wring a bit more power out of the engine.

jtown125 · 02-14-2011, 01:44 AM

First off...I sure as hell aint made out of money and I agree that a 300 dollar tuner would be pretty nice.

The kit that I ordered is an hks kit, but the offbrand bov i bought is exactly the same so i will try em both out and see what works better.
The bov isn't that hard to take apart to put the 1" hose clip on.

Im not going to put a bpv on cause i think that will just be in the way...its already tight as it is...

OH, btw I had probably another stupid question im sure that you could answer...

the vacuum places where the OEM bov circulates....if i was to put a vacuum line there...could that possibly help? Just curious since i have a week to mess around with it.

And one more question...Does it hurt that my exhaust has the wastegate runner and its cut off?

and thanks for admitting your dickishness...
ill admit my stubborn bastardness...lol

cre · 02-14-2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown125

Im not going to put a bpv on cause i think that will just be in the way...its already tight as it is...

I've seen a very high power MKIV with 3 PBV's.

When you've got a lot of air to dump, sometimes one just isn't enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown125

OH, btw I had probably another stupid question im sure that you could answer...

the vacuum places where the OEM bov circulates....if i was to put a vacuum line there...could that possibly help? Just curious since i have a week to mess around with it.

I don't quite follow.... The You are, I assume, referring to the intake's inlet for the BPV's exhaust or discharge? If so, with a BOV you just want it plugged. When you install the BPV kit the discharge will go there like it was in the stock setup. The vacuum system goes positive when you start boosting, running a hose there will just cause a big boost leak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown125

and thanks for admitting your dickishness...
ill admit my stubborn bastardness...lol

Comes with the territory.

Some people bring it out in e more than others. No, I'm not referring to you; Someone else has been ticking me off.

jtown125 · 02-14-2011, 02:07 AM

I didn't know what that outlet did...
both outlets are plugged for original bov.
i was just curious...

does it hurt that my exhaust has a wastegate runner that is cut off?

and what fuel controller would you recommend?

cre · 02-14-2011, 02:30 AM

A BPV/BOV has an inlet and an outlet. The inlet is on the boosted side of the intake, between the turbo and the throttle body. The Outlet side is on the ambient/vacuum side of the intake, before the turbo (and after the air flow meter in certain setups like this one). The poppet/valve is held closed by a spring and depending on the type the spring is assisted by the boost pressure. When you let off the throttle the intake plenum (the portion AFTER the throttle body) pressure goes negative and the manifold reference (the small vacuum line) goes negative sucking the poppet/valve open against the pressure of the spring. The strength of the spring dictates how much vacuum is required to open and keep the valve open. Excess pressure between the turbo and the throttle body is now discharged back to the intake before the turbo. This prevents new air from entering the system and the ECU doesn't add any more extra fuel... you don't run lean though because the ECU has already measured and allocated fuel for the air which has just had its trip extended. If you just dump the air out, the ECU still thinks it's in the system and it still send fuel for it.

cre · 02-14-2011, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown125

does it hurt that my exhaust has a wastegate runner that is cut off?

Again, I have no idea what you mean.... doesn't sound good though. If you want to control the wastegate then build a ball valve controller for $30. Don't cut anything, don't add any washers and don't weld anything...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown125

and what fuel controller would you recommend?

It depends on your final goals, how much you're willing to budget for and if you are willing to wait until you can get something really beefy or if you just want something for now. The Apex'i SAFC-II is an older unit but very reliable and very popular; Its successor is the Neo, an equally popular unit and even more flexible and user friendly. Beyond that you're looking at a MAFT Pro setup or a full stand alone EMS.

jtown125 · 02-14-2011, 02:39 AM

I follow...
reading always helps...

the hks vpc...is this a good tuner?
and how hard are they usually to install...

maybe i will spend my tax money on one...
taken i get the bov thing fixed when the parts get here...

jtown125 · 02-14-2011, 03:26 AM

Im going to take very detailed pics tomorrow of my setup.
I wasn't the person who put the new motor in, so I don't know everything that was changed and what not. I know that the motor was BUILT.

Im looking at the neo it doesn't seem extremely hard to wire and it has alot of good components to it...

I know that this car has alot of potential once I get all the minor kinks worked out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-91...Q5fAccessories

This is the downpipe i have, the second pipe running down is cut off halfway.

02-13-2011, 10:29 AM	#11
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	RANT: No.... the thing I like about pulling up next to a high dollar car is kicking their ass and it not sounding at all like I'm trying. It gives people chills, says I just won your girlfriend and I've still got more. I've had it done to me by a couple VERY cool (all under the hood) cars and I've done it to some as well. Besides, a large amount of people think nothing good about those who are doing it just for sound (and yes, many of us do know when you come driving up if it's doing you any good or just some stupid ricer punk mod to look more like Mr. Diesel or that blonde guy... or someone from Initial D if that's your thing.... ). But, to each his own; I'll still help where I care to. /RANT Running dual will still leave you running rich at the shifts (and thus still cost you power and throttle response). A dual setup probably isn't your thing anyway as it cuts the volume of the whistle in half. Getting the electronics to live happily with whatever arrangement you're running is the key here and you may also find that there's more power to be had from a good tune; The stock fuel maps are quite conservative and rich. You really have three choices: 1) IF you're more concerned about actual power and efficiency, tune it. 2) IF you're worried about drive-ability and cost along with power, get the recirculation kit or a BPV and get over your love for Big Bird. 3) IF you really don't give a crap about any of the above other than somewhat decent dive-ability then run a dual setup and be done. It will still bog, possibly stumble, but shouldn't stall.... take your current problem and cut it in half. I suppose you could install a "bad boy" switch. Install both BOV and BPV Connect a VSV to a PWM and place the VSV on the signal line to the BOV. When you want to act tough flip the switch to turn on the BOV; When you're ready to drive aggressively turn it off and you turn the BOV off, leaving the BPV running solo. (You could also turn off the BOV when a cop gets behind you this way.) There are other ways to deal with this but the cost just keeps getting higher. The issue lies with both the ECU and AFM (this problem affects both VAFM and KVAFM setups). __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-13-2011, 09:00 PM	#12
jtown125 Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 40	I just bought a new bov and recirc kit... ill let ya know how it goes... it will probably be the week after next before anything gets here anyway.... __________________ 89 mkIII turbo supra stick black w/ maroon interior!!!

02-13-2011, 10:32 PM	#13
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Way to cave to the peer pressure... (yes, I know I'm a dick) Did you look for a recirc kit for your HKS? They're out there. Are you going to just run recirc or a BOV/BPV combo? In the end you should still consider saving up for a good fuel controller and some tuning.. you'll be able to run whatever BOV/BPV you like and you should be able to wring a bit more power out of the engine. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-14-2011, 01:44 AM	#14
jtown125 Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 40	First off...I sure as hell aint made out of money and I agree that a 300 dollar tuner would be pretty nice. The kit that I ordered is an hks kit, but the offbrand bov i bought is exactly the same so i will try em both out and see what works better. The bov isn't that hard to take apart to put the 1" hose clip on. Im not going to put a bpv on cause i think that will just be in the way...its already tight as it is... OH, btw I had probably another stupid question im sure that you could answer... the vacuum places where the OEM bov circulates....if i was to put a vacuum line there...could that possibly help? Just curious since i have a week to mess around with it. And one more question...Does it hurt that my exhaust has the wastegate runner and its cut off? and thanks for admitting your dickishness... ill admit my stubborn bastardness...lol __________________ 89 mkIII turbo supra stick black w/ maroon interior!!! Last edited by jtown125; 02-14-2011 at 02:03 AM.

02-14-2011, 02:07 AM	#16
jtown125 Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 40	I didn't know what that outlet did... both outlets are plugged for original bov. i was just curious... does it hurt that my exhaust has a wastegate runner that is cut off? and what fuel controller would you recommend? __________________ 89 mkIII turbo supra stick black w/ maroon interior!!!

02-14-2011, 02:30 AM	#17
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	A BPV/BOV has an inlet and an outlet. The inlet is on the boosted side of the intake, between the turbo and the throttle body. The Outlet side is on the ambient/vacuum side of the intake, before the turbo (and after the air flow meter in certain setups like this one). The poppet/valve is held closed by a spring and depending on the type the spring is assisted by the boost pressure. When you let off the throttle the intake plenum (the portion AFTER the throttle body) pressure goes negative and the manifold reference (the small vacuum line) goes negative sucking the poppet/valve open against the pressure of the spring. The strength of the spring dictates how much vacuum is required to open and keep the valve open. Excess pressure between the turbo and the throttle body is now discharged back to the intake before the turbo. This prevents new air from entering the system and the ECU doesn't add any more extra fuel... you don't run lean though because the ECU has already measured and allocated fuel for the air which has just had its trip extended. If you just dump the air out, the ECU still thinks it's in the system and it still send fuel for it. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-14-2011, 02:39 AM	#19
jtown125 Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 40	I follow... reading always helps... the hks vpc...is this a good tuner? and how hard are they usually to install... maybe i will spend my tax money on one... taken i get the bov thing fixed when the parts get here... __________________ 89 mkIII turbo supra stick black w/ maroon interior!!!

02-14-2011, 03:26 AM	#20
jtown125 Intake Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 40	Im going to take very detailed pics tomorrow of my setup. I wasn't the person who put the new motor in, so I don't know everything that was changed and what not. I know that the motor was BUILT. Im looking at the neo it doesn't seem extremely hard to wire and it has alot of good components to it... I know that this car has alot of potential once I get all the minor kinks worked out. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-91...Q5fAccessories This is the downpipe i have, the second pipe running down is cut off halfway. __________________ 89 mkIII turbo supra stick black w/ maroon interior!!!

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