car suddenly wont start - never ran great anyway, esp. cold, now cranks, but won't st

rjSupra · 02-22-2011, 02:19 AM

Checked under hood and inside foot well fuse box. All the fuses are still intact.

I also found I have an extra / surpplus MT ECU not an AT one. My car right now is AT (with stock ECU I assume) and a the 2nd prior owner was intending to swap it to MT and handed all the parts along. I suppose - from reading here - that if the ECU is toast, this one won't work for me as they are different.

rjSupra · 02-22-2011, 03:23 AM

So, I didn't even know the Auto Transmission had error codes too (thanks Cygnus X-1 for procedure).
I have error codes:
62
63
that are stored. According to Cygnus X-1 it means:
62 - Defective No1 solenoid or short circuit-severed wire harness or short circuit.
63 - Defective No2 solenoid or short circuit-severed wire harness or short circuit.
Don't have any idea if this could be contributing to a grouchy slow Supra in the extreme cold, and the occasional hard shift into OverDrive. ??

And one other note, my wiring harness / loom is, uh, not pretty. Looks like high temps have sort of melted / brittled away some of the black enclosing thingee, and a few wires are open and exposed in front of the CPS area... I can't really get it out, or haven't devoted the time to pull it out for full inspection, I am also sort of afraid of cracking off more of the black plastic stuff, it's very flimsy at this point. Don't know if that could be an issue and causing all of these problems??

cre · 02-22-2011, 06:02 AM

A bad wire harness could account for all of your problems. Personally, I'd start with testing and patching the harness but I'm more of an electrical kind of guy.

rjSupra · 02-22-2011, 06:08 PM

Thanks Cre.

I hear you. That might not be a bad place to start. Also, for some reason I don't think my ECU is bad, just a hunch nothing more. But my O2 sensor looks pretty old and dirty on the outside, so I bet it's old and dirty on the inside too.
I wonder if the 02 sensor is so bad and dirty and old, and the temp was so cold here yesterday, maybe it just couldn't work (air temp in the teens, maybe lower). And maybe trying to start the car the 14 + times without it starting prompted my #21 error of ignitor / ignition pack failing to start after "A" times (which for my Turbo is 3 times in a row). So would that make sense?
Can a trashed O2 sensor cause some power issues by, what, messing up combustion or timing, and account for lowered power and crappy fuel mileage?
What do other folks get on their older Supras for MPG anyway? I think I read 14-30 mpg range. It would be very nice to solve this problem, have a running car, and a break from the headaches. I haven't even had time to think about the nasty PS leak with all the other stuff.

cre · 02-23-2011, 07:25 AM

Your O2 sensor isn't going to cause much other then slightly poorer mileage than normal. The average mileage I've seen would be about 18MPG with mixed highway and city and a slightly heavy foot on occasion. You can unplug the O2 sensor and should see little change in the operation of the vehicle. If there is a significant change then there is a problem with a more critical trim sensor somewhere else in the system (such as the AFM).

The code could be the result of low voltage due to the cold temp and drain from repeated cranking... test the battery, the alternator and test the ignitor.

btwilson86 · 02-23-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjSupra

What do other folks get on their older Supras for MPG anyway?

I'm averaging about 18-19 city driving, and that's with a somewhat frequent heavy foot.

rjSupra · 02-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the assistance!

I have a battery charger with a 50 amp starting setting, to start the car with the battery in it from your garage A.C. This worked pretty good with a bad battery before on the car, before I bought a new (cheap) battery. Autolite Silver series $67 with core on sale direct internet. Probably not a great battery, but I was not sure at that point I could keep the car (had that unsolved mega coolant problem that grounded it for 2 months at the time, and had thought if the steel line under the headers was toast I'd probably sell the car as is with disclosures).

So, I am guessing I should be getting enough juice. I am separated from the car's location for another day, hopefully when I get back it will warm up a bit and I can re-try. The car sat about 24 hrs overnight in fact (not same day), in biting cold since it had last been driven 30 miles / 45 minutes. So far, the alternator has been keeping the battery charged. The car has sat for 7+ days in bad cold before and fired right up as always.

I have not done the spark plugs. They looked, well used, but not terrible. No real oil that I can recall, although it's possible one was wet a little bit. Mostly I remember normal carbon deposits (at the time no plug gapper tool, so could not check the gaps). Have not done the wires, no idea when they were done last, although visually they look ok (i've seen a lot worse).

Any thoughts what that wisp of smoke behind the motor, close to the firewall could have been? And the slight plastic-y burning smell? That happened the last time I tried to start her, with a paper clip jumping either the engine error code check terminals, or the fuel pump 12v bypass I can't quite remember which one I had it in.

It sounds like the 02 sensor can't be at fault for all these issues, so I appreciate knowing that now. Don't really know what they do aside from I gather measuring oxygen levels in exhaust to send setting info to the car for fuel rich / lean levels etc... I do have a multi meter so next step would be to test a few of the components that way. It was just too cold and dark the other day to deal with it.

Thanks again.

cre · 02-23-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjSupra

Any thoughts what that wisp of smoke behind the motor, close to the firewall could have been? And the slight plastic-y burning smell? That happened the last time I tried to start her, with a paper clip jumping either the engine error code check terminals, or the fuel pump 12v bypass I can't quite remember which one I had it in.

Sure.... the wire harness. Start there. Check to see if you can hear fuel moving through the fuel rail with B+ and FP jumped... check if B+ has a constant 12v.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjSupra

It sounds like the 02 sensor can't be at fault for all these issues, so I appreciate knowing that now. Don't really know what they do aside from I gather measuring oxygen levels in exhaust to send setting info to the car for fuel rich / lean levels etc.

A bad O2 sensor may be good enough to cause a slightly bad reading.... Usually when they go though they're so far out of range that the ECU disregards the sensor altogether.

straight6power · 03-19-2014, 11:47 PM

Can the 7mge ingnition system b put on a 7mgte...

02-22-2011, 02:19 AM	#1
rjSupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NH Posts: 86	All the fuses are working. Checked under hood and inside foot well fuse box. All the fuses are still intact. I also found I have an extra / surpplus MT ECU not an AT one. My car right now is AT (with stock ECU I assume) and a the 2nd prior owner was intending to swap it to MT and handed all the parts along. I suppose - from reading here - that if the ECU is toast, this one won't work for me as they are different. __________________ 88 Supra 7M-GTE Turbo, TEMS, Targa stock Last edited by rjSupra; 02-22-2011 at 03:29 AM.

02-22-2011, 06:02 AM	#3
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	A bad wire harness could account for all of your problems. Personally, I'd start with testing and patching the harness but I'm more of an electrical kind of guy. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-22-2011, 06:08 PM	#4
rjSupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NH Posts: 86	Thanks Cre. I hear you. That might not be a bad place to start. Also, for some reason I don't think my ECU is bad, just a hunch nothing more. But my O2 sensor looks pretty old and dirty on the outside, so I bet it's old and dirty on the inside too. I wonder if the 02 sensor is so bad and dirty and old, and the temp was so cold here yesterday, maybe it just couldn't work (air temp in the teens, maybe lower). And maybe trying to start the car the 14 + times without it starting prompted my #21 error of ignitor / ignition pack failing to start after "A" times (which for my Turbo is 3 times in a row). So would that make sense? Can a trashed O2 sensor cause some power issues by, what, messing up combustion or timing, and account for lowered power and crappy fuel mileage? What do other folks get on their older Supras for MPG anyway? I think I read 14-30 mpg range. It would be very nice to solve this problem, have a running car, and a break from the headaches. I haven't even had time to think about the nasty PS leak with all the other stuff. __________________ 88 Supra 7M-GTE Turbo, TEMS, Targa stock

02-23-2011, 07:25 AM	#5
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Your O2 sensor isn't going to cause much other then slightly poorer mileage than normal. The average mileage I've seen would be about 18MPG with mixed highway and city and a slightly heavy foot on occasion. You can unplug the O2 sensor and should see little change in the operation of the vehicle. If there is a significant change then there is a problem with a more critical trim sensor somewhere else in the system (such as the AFM). The code could be the result of low voltage due to the cold temp and drain from repeated cranking... test the battery, the alternator and test the ignitor. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

02-23-2011, 02:47 PM	#7
rjSupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NH Posts: 86	have new batt, and used 50 amp charger for car starting too Hi guys, thanks for the assistance! I have a battery charger with a 50 amp starting setting, to start the car with the battery in it from your garage A.C. This worked pretty good with a bad battery before on the car, before I bought a new (cheap) battery. Autolite Silver series $67 with core on sale direct internet. Probably not a great battery, but I was not sure at that point I could keep the car (had that unsolved mega coolant problem that grounded it for 2 months at the time, and had thought if the steel line under the headers was toast I'd probably sell the car as is with disclosures). So, I am guessing I should be getting enough juice. I am separated from the car's location for another day, hopefully when I get back it will warm up a bit and I can re-try. The car sat about 24 hrs overnight in fact (not same day), in biting cold since it had last been driven 30 miles / 45 minutes. So far, the alternator has been keeping the battery charged. The car has sat for 7+ days in bad cold before and fired right up as always. I have not done the spark plugs. They looked, well used, but not terrible. No real oil that I can recall, although it's possible one was wet a little bit. Mostly I remember normal carbon deposits (at the time no plug gapper tool, so could not check the gaps). Have not done the wires, no idea when they were done last, although visually they look ok (i've seen a lot worse). Any thoughts what that wisp of smoke behind the motor, close to the firewall could have been? And the slight plastic-y burning smell? That happened the last time I tried to start her, with a paper clip jumping either the engine error code check terminals, or the fuel pump 12v bypass I can't quite remember which one I had it in. It sounds like the 02 sensor can't be at fault for all these issues, so I appreciate knowing that now. Don't really know what they do aside from I gather measuring oxygen levels in exhaust to send setting info to the car for fuel rich / lean levels etc... I do have a multi meter so next step would be to test a few of the components that way. It was just too cold and dark the other day to deal with it. Thanks again. __________________ 88 Supra 7M-GTE Turbo, TEMS, Targa stock

02-22-2011, 03:23 AM	#2
rjSupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NH Posts: 86	AT error codes 62 & 63 - ugh. So, I didn't even know the Auto Transmission had error codes too (thanks Cygnus X-1 for procedure). I have error codes: 62 63 that are stored. According to Cygnus X-1 it means: 62 - Defective No1 solenoid or short circuit-severed wire harness or short circuit. 63 - Defective No2 solenoid or short circuit-severed wire harness or short circuit. Don't have any idea if this could be contributing to a grouchy slow Supra in the extreme cold, and the occasional hard shift into OverDrive. ?? And one other note, my wiring harness / loom is, uh, not pretty. Looks like high temps have sort of melted / brittled away some of the black enclosing thingee, and a few wires are open and exposed in front of the CPS area... I can't really get it out, or haven't devoted the time to pull it out for full inspection, I am also sort of afraid of cracking off more of the black plastic stuff, it's very flimsy at this point. Don't know if that could be an issue and causing all of these problems?? __________________ 88 Supra 7M-GTE Turbo, TEMS, Targa stock Last edited by rjSupra; 02-22-2011 at 03:27 AM. Reason: mispelling

03-19-2014, 11:47 PM	#9
straight6power Stock Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: dalby Posts: 1	Can the 7mge ingnition system b put on a 7mgte...

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