Changed HG, now starter won't crank?

thenderson2011 · 08-12-2013, 03:39 AM

Hello everybody!

I bought this car over two years ago, and have had a hell of a time with it since then. I paid a friend of mine to fix it (Horrible idea) and he changed the head, changed the had gasket, and threw it back together, with the timing gears set wrong and it not running, and told me to get it out of his yard. I then took it to a dealership, got it running, and 3 days later realized that since he reused the head bolts it was losing coolant again, so I decided to tear it down and fix it myself. This was last summer, and since then I have replaced every gasket I came across, and it is nearly complete. I have to get one more copper ring for a piece on my fuel rail, and then it will be put back together. My problem, however, is that when I had it all put together, before I realized I was missing the copper ring for the fuel rail, when I went to start it, the starter would not turn or click at all. I don't understand why, because before I took the motor apart, it didn't have any problems with the starter, and I didn't touch it while taking the motor apart.

I thought maybe it was my ground wires that hang by the intake manifold, but I took the white wires and the brown wires and grounded them to the manifold under a bolt that connects the upper part of the manifold to the lower. Is this a good connection spot, or could that be part of my problem?

This is my first time working on a car, so I could easily be missing something simple, so any suggestions would be great. I'm going to keep looking for things tomorrow, but as of right now I'm completely stumped.

btwilson86 · 08-12-2013, 04:49 AM

Well, when you installed the starter did you connect both the wires? There is a large diameter positive wire that goes onto a stud on the starter solenoid (that's what provides power to the starter motor) and then there's a smaller wire that clips onto a terminal on the starter solenoid (when you turn the key to "Start", this wire provides power to the starter solenoid and engages the starter motor).

Also, does the rest of the car get power? Is the battery charged?

thenderson2011 · 08-12-2013, 05:05 AM

I never removed the starter when I took the car apart. I charged the battery overnight before I tried to start it, and the battery charger said it was full, and the dash light and radio and everything worked on the inside.

thenderson2011 · 08-12-2013, 04:26 PM

This is where I have my grounds wired in, is this a bad place? Also do I need to have them grounded separately?

I also came across this wire, it's blue and black, but I have no idea where it needs to go, any ideas?

btwilson86 · 08-13-2013, 06:05 AM

Where is this wire located?
Is it under the intake manifold?
Are you positive that both wires for your starter are connected?

I ask because the TEWD (wiring diagram) shows a Black wire with Blue stripe as the wire that engages your starter solenoid. The original connector is not an uninsulated female spade type as the one shown in your picture, but if it broke in the past someone may have replaced it with that as it will work for that type of connection...

As far as I know, there shouldn't be any problem having the grounds grouped together. There should be several there, as Toyota used that spot as a ground point for several systems.

cre · 08-13-2013, 04:59 PM

Looks like the starter solenoid wire to me too.

That's not the correct placement for those grounds but it'll work fine. They have their own boss where they connect on the intake manifold a little further back where nothing else attaches (that may be it in the picture) and I believe Toyota specifies a special fastener for it (certain alloy with two or three stacked washers pressed on it). There are circumstances where you cannot ground all lined to the same location (for noise reasons) but those are fine.

thenderson2011 · 08-13-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btwilson86

Where is this wire located?
Is it under the intake manifold?
Are you positive that both wires for your starter are connected?

I ask because the TEWD (wiring diagram) shows a Black wire with Blue stripe as the wire that engages your starter solenoid. The original connector is not an uninsulated female spade type as the one shown in your picture, but if it broke in the past someone may have replaced it with that as it will work for that type of connection...

As far as I know, there shouldn't be any problem having the grounds grouped together. There should be several there, as Toyota used that spot as a ground point for several systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cre

Looks like the starter solenoid wire to me too.

That's not the correct placement for those grounds but it'll work fine. They have their own boss where they connect on the intake manifold a little further back where nothing else attaches (that may be it in the picture) and I believe Toyota specifies a special fastener for it (certain alloy with two or three stacked washers pressed on it). There are circumstances where you cannot ground all lined to the same location (for noise reasons) but those are fine.

You guys were right, it was the starter solenoid wire. The plug in was a bitch to find but I found it. Now I'm not getting spark and the tach doesnt bounce when i try to start it. I'm going to try and move the grounds to the spot they're supposed to be and see if that changes anything, because it started fine before i took the motor apart.

cre · 08-13-2013, 06:22 PM

As long as the grounds are clean and well connected it's not your problem. Make sure the grounds on the passenger side are in place as well (can't remember if there's just the one chassis ground there or if there are others from the ECU harness.... I've worked on too many aftermarket setups which also use that ground point so I can't remember the specifics.

I'd start with inspecting the CPS' harness and making sure the mechanical timing is set properly.

thenderson2011 · 08-13-2013, 07:23 PM

Alright. Would the cps wires cause it to not get spark?

thenderson2011 · 08-14-2013, 12:42 AM

Ok so i fixed up the cps wires and got spark. It started to turn over and then died. My uncle said he thinks its the fuel pump not kickin in because we couldn't hear it turn on. I need to getA paperclip and I'll check the diag box and see if its getting power. If not what willi i need to do?

08-12-2013, 03:39 AM	#1
thenderson2011 Stock Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Manhattan Kansas Posts: 9	Changed HG, now starter won't crank? Hello everybody! I bought this car over two years ago, and have had a hell of a time with it since then. I paid a friend of mine to fix it (Horrible idea) and he changed the head, changed the had gasket, and threw it back together, with the timing gears set wrong and it not running, and told me to get it out of his yard. I then took it to a dealership, got it running, and 3 days later realized that since he reused the head bolts it was losing coolant again, so I decided to tear it down and fix it myself. This was last summer, and since then I have replaced every gasket I came across, and it is nearly complete. I have to get one more copper ring for a piece on my fuel rail, and then it will be put back together. My problem, however, is that when I had it all put together, before I realized I was missing the copper ring for the fuel rail, when I went to start it, the starter would not turn or click at all. I don't understand why, because before I took the motor apart, it didn't have any problems with the starter, and I didn't touch it while taking the motor apart. I thought maybe it was my ground wires that hang by the intake manifold, but I took the white wires and the brown wires and grounded them to the manifold under a bolt that connects the upper part of the manifold to the lower. Is this a good connection spot, or could that be part of my problem? This is my first time working on a car, so I could easily be missing something simple, so any suggestions would be great. I'm going to keep looking for things tomorrow, but as of right now I'm completely stumped.

08-12-2013, 04:49 AM	#2
btwilson86 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Billings, Montana Posts: 1,034	Well, when you installed the starter did you connect both the wires? There is a large diameter positive wire that goes onto a stud on the starter solenoid (that's what provides power to the starter motor) and then there's a smaller wire that clips onto a terminal on the starter solenoid (when you turn the key to "Start", this wire provides power to the starter solenoid and engages the starter motor). Also, does the rest of the car get power? Is the battery charged? __________________ 1989 7MGTE R154 Targa Top White Package w/Blue Interior Driftmotion 57trim CT26, Upgraded Intercooler, 2.25" Hard Pipes, 3" Turbo Back Exhaust with Test Pipe, HKS VPC w/GM 3 bar MAP sensor, APEXi S-AFC, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, ProSport EVO Series Boost / Fuel Pressure / AFR gauges, Lotek a Pillar Gauge Pod, HKS Type 0 Turbo Timer, Eibach Lowering Springs, Tokico Illumina II TEMS struts, custom powder coated Motegi Racing TrakLite wheels

08-13-2013, 06:05 AM	#5
btwilson86 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Billings, Montana Posts: 1,034	Where is this wire located? Is it under the intake manifold? Are you positive that both wires for your starter are connected? I ask because the TEWD (wiring diagram) shows a Black wire with Blue stripe as the wire that engages your starter solenoid. The original connector is not an uninsulated female spade type as the one shown in your picture, but if it broke in the past someone may have replaced it with that as it will work for that type of connection... As far as I know, there shouldn't be any problem having the grounds grouped together. There should be several there, as Toyota used that spot as a ground point for several systems. __________________ 1989 7MGTE R154 Targa Top White Package w/Blue Interior Driftmotion 57trim CT26, Upgraded Intercooler, 2.25" Hard Pipes, 3" Turbo Back Exhaust with Test Pipe, HKS VPC w/GM 3 bar MAP sensor, APEXi S-AFC, Walbro 255lph fuel pump, ProSport EVO Series Boost / Fuel Pressure / AFR gauges, Lotek a Pillar Gauge Pod, HKS Type 0 Turbo Timer, Eibach Lowering Springs, Tokico Illumina II TEMS struts, custom powder coated Motegi Racing TrakLite wheels

08-13-2013, 04:59 PM	#6
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Looks like the starter solenoid wire to me too. That's not the correct placement for those grounds but it'll work fine. They have their own boss where they connect on the intake manifold a little further back where nothing else attaches (that may be it in the picture) and I believe Toyota specifies a special fastener for it (certain alloy with two or three stacked washers pressed on it). There are circumstances where you cannot ground all lined to the same location (for noise reasons) but those are fine. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

08-13-2013, 06:22 PM	#8
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	As long as the grounds are clean and well connected it's not your problem. Make sure the grounds on the passenger side are in place as well (can't remember if there's just the one chassis ground there or if there are others from the ECU harness.... I've worked on too many aftermarket setups which also use that ground point so I can't remember the specifics. I'd start with inspecting the CPS' harness and making sure the mechanical timing is set properly. __________________ If something breaks or you need to contact a member of the administration please post HERE. Unless it's a private or administration matter please post it on the forum. It benefits no one else if car related questions aren't posted for future users and takes away from the time I'm able to spend helping on the rest of the forum. If you're so inclined I'm always more than happy to accept tips via PayPal. Tip Jar --->

08-12-2013, 05:05 AM	#3
thenderson2011 Stock Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Manhattan Kansas Posts: 9	I never removed the starter when I took the car apart. I charged the battery overnight before I tried to start it, and the battery charger said it was full, and the dash light and radio and everything worked on the inside.

08-12-2013, 04:26 PM	#4
thenderson2011 Stock Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Manhattan Kansas Posts: 9	This is where I have my grounds wired in, is this a bad place? Also do I need to have them grounded separately? I also came across this wire, it's blue and black, but I have no idea where it needs to go, any ideas?

08-13-2013, 07:23 PM	#9
thenderson2011 Stock Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Manhattan Kansas Posts: 9	Alright. Would the cps wires cause it to not get spark?

08-14-2013, 12:42 AM	#10
thenderson2011 Stock Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Manhattan Kansas Posts: 9	Ok so i fixed up the cps wires and got spark. It started to turn over and then died. My uncle said he thinks its the fuel pump not kickin in because we couldn't hear it turn on. I need to getA paperclip and I'll check the diag box and see if its getting power. If not what willi i need to do?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Starter Removal question	OkieRA29	MKIII Supra	13	05-11-2010 12:08 AM
rebuilt hard to crank (high engine resistance); need advice	cbrewster	MKIII Supra	4	09-28-2009 04:52 PM
90 mkIII starter connections	doodah	MKIII Supra	1	11-11-2008 06:14 PM
How to quickly test starter	CyFi6	MKIII Supra	4	11-30-2007 01:57 AM
89 Toyota Supra N/A won't crank	pica	MKIII Supra	3	05-19-2006 11:26 AM