Trouble Shooting a 1989 Supra Turbo
 

I am Having problems, Please help

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328943

That is my post on the other supra forum. If you cannot get there let me know and i will copy and past it in this forum.


The first time i posted this, I posted it in the wrong section (not sure how) but The admin can delete it.


http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...2240#post12240

anything.....?

i cant read it. you have to be a member. Copy paste it for us.

http://supraforums.com/

http://supraforums.com/forum/images/...bits_start.gif Supraforums > Performance and General Modification Forums > MKIII (1986.5-1992) > MKIII Technical http://supraforums.com/forum/images/..._finallink.gif Trouble Shooting 1989 Supra Turbo

fallow that order, you should be able to get it that way.

how did you get on?
did you get it sorted?

Well then how about a brief description about what is happening to your car. With that, many on here can help you diagnose the problem pretty well. Just start at the beginning and add stuff as needed.


By the way, welcome back Suprra_girl.

Russ

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heh thanks :D good to be back for a bit, my laptop broke so sent it for repair, been using a friends computer lol

Well, check the timing, both ignition and cam. With the head r&red, it could easily be either or both. Vacuum lines could be wrong too, but get a manual and check those first two things then let us know.


Russ

When trouble shooting any non-starting vehicle, there's 3 things it needs to start, 1)compression, 2) fuel, 3) spark. Obviously you have fuel and compression. You are either off on the ignition timing and have to check the CPS, or your not getting any spark for some reason, or a combination. That would be my guess. Hope that helps.

ok, i am going to copy the other fourm in here.

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Trouble Shooting 1989 Supra Turbo
Alrighty, I have brought a 1989 Toyota Supra Turbo to MI, Whooo. But this is the story so far. OK the body is in perfect condition and same with the interior. It has never seen a winter before. But this is where it gets messy, OK He told me that He put in a bigger turbo from off his friends car because he got a new one and (was running on the stock head gasket). He said it was working fine for a little bit and then he blew the head gasket. So he went out and got a 1.5 MM HKS gasket and put it in there. And he said it won’t start now. He says that when he goes to fire it up. It starts up but back fires like CRAZY and he checked the timing and he said it was all TDC. So what I Am hoping is that because it starts up it will just be something minor. Like mix up of the firing order with the spark plug wires or he has it on the wrong cycle. We had the same problem with my brothers 240SX we dropped a new engine in it and tried to start it up and backfired like crazy and the timing was right and the sparkplugs but it was on the wrong cycle so we fixed that and it fired right up. So, what my question is. What do you guys think I should do to try to fix it. I am having some friends come over Either Fri, or Sat, to work on it. What I am planning on doing is running a compression test, sparkplug wiring order (I did it but I just looked at it quickly before I went inside) so I will need to make a more thorough check on that. And check the timing and see if it is on the right cycle.
Do you guys have anything else I should try….?


And I forgot to mention. I pulled the spark plug wire off of spark plug number 5 I think or 6 not sure. And I looked down and there was a pool of gas around the spark plug.. I could just barley see the top of the plug……..

check the plug wire configuration....sometimes people make dork mistakes and plug it in the wrong place on the coil pack.

or they put the wire in the wrong cylinder.

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Yup, They where all connected right

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a pool of gas around the sparkplug???? http://supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/wtf.gif need to fix that asap...or you will burn!
check the fuel rail for leaks around the line fittings. is it backfiring or missing? or both?
if it starts up, must be something simple...check plugs, wires, leaks, timing, ect. also about the timing...once i installed a cps 180deg out of phase. it would run but the timing was way out and it backfired alot.

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gas in the sparkplug well? Shit, you'd see it shooting a stream of fuel from the rail
over the intake cam cover if that were it. I bet it was poured in there to clean out
the oil in the center valley or the plug itself is loose and that cylinder isn't firing.

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Ok, I just pulled all the spark plug caps and looked and they ALL had a pool of gas OVER the top of the spark plug in that little hole. I just got the car yesterday… So I don’t think gas is shooting all over the place Cause it would reek of gas. But I soaked up ALL the gas and cleaned the plug areas took like 15 Paper towel squares. But I got it lol. But when I look down. I can see Gas in all of the piston chambers. Like if you shake the car you can c if sloshing around. And it does not look like clean gas at all……. He said it has been sitting for about a month.. But last I remember gas does not go bad that quick…. But I soaked up all the gas. And it smelt like gas, but it was not like an over powering smell of gas.. it smells like it is diluted with water.. or something… but the smell of gas last longer then a month.. so I don’t know. But I have some pics. Coming up in a little but I came inside to update you guys. Got to go take some pics. If I can find some batteries for the camera.

OK here are the pics.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...s/PICT0023.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...s/PICT0021.jpg



http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...s/PICT0019.jpg



http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c8...s/PICT0017.jpg

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make sure the cps is not 180 off, if it is it willbackfire and be very hard to start, sometimes u get lucky and it will start, but it will run like ass. also make sure the cams are right on. usually when it backfires it does mean u are getting spark and fuel, its just coming in and firing at the wrong time aka timing. double check and triple check it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowball
What do you think the next plan of attack should be.... http://supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/scratch.gif



clean everything FIRST! that'll make finding leaks and whatnot MUCH easier. start with your valve cover gaskets, hex head bolts, and new cove washers!

-shaeff

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I was planning on putting the plugs for 5 and 6 back in. and then fill that little area with water. And then suck it back out. And repeat that over and over because I cant get like a rag down there or anything to clean it. Or does anyone else have a better idea? And should I try to get the gas out of the piston chambers.. or just don’t worry about it…

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i used a shop vac with the long plastic tube extension. about 1.5 inces diameter. fits right thru the hole in the third cover and can suck all the stuff out of the cylinder bore and the valley at the same time. as for how the fuel got there... im not sure check everything for leaks, make sure the injector clips are on the right injectors. maybe you are flooding out on 5 and 6 because they are switched....in any case. and im serious here. make sure you take your time and find the problem with the fuel and definately clean all the fuel from the piston bore and the plug valley before you get cranking. it prolly wont crank with all that fuel in there anyway due to hydro lock. make sure the plug connectors are fully snapped onto the spark plugs. spark + fuel in the valley will surely burn your car to the ground.

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OK, She is all vacuumed and cleaned out, I sucked up the gas that was in all the piston chambers. The only really bad ones where 1 and 6 I believe or 2 and 6 one of the front one and 6….

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now change your oil, because there's a good chance that gas seeped past your piston rings and thinned out your oil, thus reducing the lubrication, in turn increasing your chances of rodknock. http://supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

-shaeff

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He Gave me a new oil filter also, Should I wait and run the new oil thought the old one and then after I get it running put the clean filter on?…. if you k now what I mean…

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go ahead and change the filter as well, oil filters are like 5 bucks .

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Ok, so today I had a friend and his dad come over to help me out on this thing. We took the valve covers off and noticed that both of the cam shafts where pointed inward. And we are not sure about the whole timing with the cam shaft. For the gears there are 3 Holes in the gear where we can the pin. But there are also 3 holes to which you can insert the pin in the block… So What hole does the pin go into on the gear and on the block? IM soooooo Confused… I guess what I am asking is. If I where to completely strip the block down and rebuild it. Can some one walk me through to get all the timing back and get everything synchronize where it is suppose to be. I looked through the Haynes manual and it was not very much help…. And looked through the http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/libra...M/in/IN_01.html But that was not much help either…. I searched the forum and found nothing…. I need some assistance.

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both pins go in the middle holes.

here ya go:

set the crank notch to the 0* mark, as indicated on the timing cover. you'll see- 0*, 5*, 15* etc. allign it with the zero. then put the cam sprokets back on. the pin in the cams should go in the middle holes on BOTH sprockets.

place them so the notch marks in them are facing 12 0'clock. (alligned PERFECTLY with the notches in the black housing behind the cam sprockets)

now your motor is set to 0*. = base timing. put the timing belt on, without moving anything. once it's on, tighten the tensioner pulley a LITTLE BIT. now turn the motor over (**BY HAND**) 720*, and MAKE SURE that the cam notches are still alligned with the back plate notches, and that the crank pulley is still at 0*.

now tighten the tensioner pulley down the rest of the way. (i believe it's like 13-14ft lbs)

ok, almost done. now your base timing is set, and the car *SHOULD* start. once the car is started, and you've made sure there's no leaks or anything that could damage you or the car, turn it back off.

jump Te1 and E1 in the diagnostic block to put it into "timing mode" (which is really diagnostic mode), and loosen the bolt holding the cam position sensor (assuming you're turbo, if not then replace CAM POSITION sensor with DISTRIBUTOR). just crack it loose, not all the way!

now, start the car again, still in "timing mode" and get a timing gun hooked up. (one lead to the positive battery post, one to negative, and the inductor lead goes on the #6 spark plug wire because it's easier to get to.

point the light at the aformentioned numbers embossed on the timing cover ( 0*, 5*, 10* etc...) and turn the cam position sensor (or distributor if you're n/a) until the notch on the crank pulley appears to stay even on the 10* mark.

now your ignition timing is set. turn off the car, and tighten down the CPS or distributor bolt.

-shaeff

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and if the notches in the cam gears do not line up after tensioning the belt you may need to use the left or right holes in the cam gears and cams.

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Ok, so today I got time to work on it. I took your advice and all those things where off. So I fixed that. I ran a cold, dry compression test and (from memory)
1=180, 2=176, 3=175, 4=176, 5=180, 6=183. And I tried to start it up and nothing… It like wants to start but.. it doesn’t. I know it is on the right stroke and everything I even tried the other, but like if I give it WOT then tried to start it and then stop and drop it to 25% gas it like goes put put put put. And it I don’t give it any gas or just leave it at WOT it just goes put, So……. IM stumped… I don’t know what to do know.. I checked to see if all the spark plugs are in the right order. I checked to c if they are getting spark. And it all checks out…

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFR1992T
and if the notches in the cam gears do not line up after tensioning the belt you may need to use the left or right holes in the cam gears and cams.



i've never heard of them NOT lining up... he should be fine.

-shaeff

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are you getting fuel, air and spark?

if so:

then your timing is most likely still off. check the codes, and see what the CEL tells you.

-shaeff

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ya everything lines up..... (well not everything lol) something is wrong....
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Ok, ya I have read so many post on check the codes and what not… but I never found something that explained the whole thing…
It is set at 0* and the cams line up….

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hey iv been readin your forume. im gunna sudgest a cupple things here. 1 you said that it has been sittin for a month see if its posible to find any water in your gas, 2 pull all the spark plugs out and then pull the coil plug out so that the plugs dont get any spark. then turn the engine over you probly have lots of water in there. make sure your plugs are nice cleen and dry, then put them back in

wow man look at your coil pack, the right coil pack is backwards, dude i think thats your problem it goes (left coil 1,6- center 3,4- right 5,2) if im seein it correctly you have cylinder 5,2 backwards try that and chek the coils for cracks i had to buy a new one for cylinder 1,6 it had a cupple cracks in it
im pritty sure thats your problem get back to me
harry

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shit hahah my bad man, ya it is 16 34 25 its fine
but check for cracks on it u could have a dead coil

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Yes, I had a quarter of gas in the tank and then I put lots more gas in and now I have more then half. So if there was any water in there. It should be diluted by now. But yet I have taken off the spark plugs and looked in there and I found some kind of liquid and sucked it put several times. And still no go….

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaeff
i've never heard of them NOT lining up... he should be fine.

-shaeff



Stretched timing belt or milled head/block deck will cause them to not line up.