Can't adjust timing...

Lunch2000 · 11-18-2006, 07:23 PM

After going round and round with my 89 turbo, I finally got a timing light this week and checked the ignition timing. I have been having problems with high fuel consumption and smelly exhaust and my suspicions were confirmed when I found that the timing had been advanced off the scale of timing marks. My guess is that it is advanced between somwhere between 15-20 degrees BDC. My problem is this, I can't move the cam position sensor far enough to get it to where it should be, I believe factory is 12 and I can only get it just on the scale before it hits the lockdown bolt. Do I need to replace the cam sensor or can I open it up and adjust it somehow to compensate. I would also add that the compression on the engine is higher than spec as well, about 180 as opposed to 140, so if anything I would guess I want it a little below 12. I checked the TSRM and my Hanyes manual but can't seem to find anything. Any advice from the Supra Ninja masters out there?

Lunch

Bill UK · 11-18-2006, 08:53 PM

The first thing you must do is to short out two terminals in the check connect box,
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=IG&Page=20
and if you are using a strobe light with a variable setting set it a zero.
I answer to your question, yes you can remove the cam sensor and relocate it in a position where you have more adjustment, just make sure the grove and hole on the sensor shaft line up.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=IG&Page=24
If you do need to remove the sensor you will need to remove a coolant pipe coming from the top of the thermostat housing to the turbo, so personally I would recommend you remove the top rad hose and top cam belt cover and check the camshaft timing pulleys are lined up with the match marks at the correct position.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=EM&Page=29
All the information you will need is listed in the on line cygnusx1 site, any problems let us know.

Bill UK · 11-18-2006, 09:13 PM

You can also down load from these sites.

MK3 Supra Handbook (3.19MB)
1990 MK3 Supra TSRM Text Edition(51.4MB)
MK3 Supra Engine Fasteners(122KB)

Lunch2000 · 11-18-2006, 09:26 PM

I did short out the terminals on the diag socket, I did not know about checking the cam shaft pulleys, thanks.

I'm still a little confused though about the cam shaft sensor. I would imagine to get more play, I would have to take the sensor shaft from the housing and reposition it in the housing. If I do that I'm not sure the pin and groove would line up, am I wrong? Or do I pull the cam sensor out, set the engine to TDC and reinstall...

Lunch....

Bill UK · 11-18-2006, 10:31 PM

Remove the bolt holding the sensor to the head and pull the sensor out, (it may be worth replacing the O ring at this stage they only cost a few cents Part No 90099-14018 they normally go very hard and start dripping oil onto the exhaust heat shield.) No1 should be at top dead centre with the match marks on the camshaft timing pulleys lined up with the notches in the rear timing belt cover make sure the crank shaft pulley grove is lined up at zero. I know what you mean about relocating the sensor there is always the possibility the shaft will rotate as it engages into the camshaft gear. I normally insert the sensor then pull it out to see if it has moved and repeat this several time until I happy it hasn’t moved. Another thing I do to make sure No 1 is at top dead centre, instead of looking at the position of the cams through the oil filler hole (as the per the instruction manuals) I remove No1 spark plug and insert a long piece doweling about ? dia just to make sure I’m at the top of the piston stroke.

Hope this helps

Bill UK · 11-18-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunch2000

Or do I pull the cam sensor out, set the engine to TDC and reinstall...

Lunch....

Sorry just read the last part of your post,the answer is yes.

Lunch2000 · 11-25-2006, 11:23 PM

So I reset the engine to TDC and reinstalled the Camshaft sensor, the timing now looks to be about right, but it is still a close thing. I am at the end of the play in the cam sensor. Its also now acting funky during idle, it will be fine for a minute or two and then start to drop and idle really rough for a couple minutes seem on the edge of stalling and then recover, run fine for a minute or two and then start the cycle again. I checked the diag and it says it is registering a "Too rich" condition. Is this a bad O2 sensor? I think I am idling a little on the low side as well, I think it is about 450 but I am not sure of the accuracy of my Tach.

Lunch

Lunch2000 · 11-26-2006, 04:09 AM

that I had hooked up the coil pack incorrectly at first, I had swapped 3 and 6 and I had the battery disconnected. This is what the ECU saw when it started up, and I have not done an ECU reset yet.

11-18-2006, 07:23 PM	#1
Lunch2000 Stock Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Union City, NJ Posts: 19	Can't adjust timing... After going round and round with my 89 turbo, I finally got a timing light this week and checked the ignition timing. I have been having problems with high fuel consumption and smelly exhaust and my suspicions were confirmed when I found that the timing had been advanced off the scale of timing marks. My guess is that it is advanced between somwhere between 15-20 degrees BDC. My problem is this, I can't move the cam position sensor far enough to get it to where it should be, I believe factory is 12 and I can only get it just on the scale before it hits the lockdown bolt. Do I need to replace the cam sensor or can I open it up and adjust it somehow to compensate. I would also add that the compression on the engine is higher than spec as well, about 180 as opposed to 140, so if anything I would guess I want it a little below 12. I checked the TSRM and my Hanyes manual but can't seem to find anything. Any advice from the Supra Ninja masters out there? Lunch __________________ '89 Supra Turbo 5-speed, 3" stainless exaust

11-18-2006, 09:26 PM	#4
Lunch2000 Stock Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Union City, NJ Posts: 19	Thanks...still a little confused I did short out the terminals on the diag socket, I did not know about checking the cam shaft pulleys, thanks. I'm still a little confused though about the cam shaft sensor. I would imagine to get more play, I would have to take the sensor shaft from the housing and reposition it in the housing. If I do that I'm not sure the pin and groove would line up, am I wrong? Or do I pull the cam sensor out, set the engine to TDC and reinstall... Lunch.... __________________ '89 Supra Turbo 5-speed, 3" stainless exaust

11-25-2006, 11:23 PM	#7
Lunch2000 Stock Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Union City, NJ Posts: 19	Been there did that.... So I reset the engine to TDC and reinstalled the Camshaft sensor, the timing now looks to be about right, but it is still a close thing. I am at the end of the play in the cam sensor. Its also now acting funky during idle, it will be fine for a minute or two and then start to drop and idle really rough for a couple minutes seem on the edge of stalling and then recover, run fine for a minute or two and then start the cycle again. I checked the diag and it says it is registering a "Too rich" condition. Is this a bad O2 sensor? I think I am idling a little on the low side as well, I think it is about 450 but I am not sure of the accuracy of my Tach. Lunch __________________ '89 Supra Turbo 5-speed, 3" stainless exaust

11-26-2006, 04:09 AM	#8
Lunch2000 Stock Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Union City, NJ Posts: 19	I should also add that I had hooked up the coil pack incorrectly at first, I had swapped 3 and 6 and I had the battery disconnected. This is what the ECU saw when it started up, and I have not done an ECU reset yet. __________________ '89 Supra Turbo 5-speed, 3" stainless exaust

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11-18-2006, 08:53 PM	#2
Bill UK AEM EMS Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 891	The first thing you must do is to short out two terminals in the check connect box, http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=IG&Page=20 and if you are using a strobe light with a variable setting set it a zero. I answer to your question, yes you can remove the cam sensor and relocate it in a position where you have more adjustment, just make sure the grove and hole on the sensor shaft line up. http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=IG&Page=24 If you do need to remove the sensor you will need to remove a coolant pipe coming from the top of the thermostat housing to the turbo, so personally I would recommend you remove the top rad hose and top cam belt cover and check the camshaft timing pulleys are lined up with the match marks at the correct position. http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=EM&Page=29 All the information you will need is listed in the on line cygnusx1 site, any problems let us know.

11-18-2006, 09:13 PM	#3
Bill UK AEM EMS Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 891	You can also down load from these sites. MK3 Supra Handbook (3.19MB) 1990 MK3 Supra TSRM Text Edition(51.4MB) MK3 Supra Engine Fasteners(122KB)

11-18-2006, 10:31 PM	#5
Bill UK AEM EMS Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 891	Remove the bolt holding the sensor to the head and pull the sensor out, (it may be worth replacing the O ring at this stage they only cost a few cents Part No 90099-14018 they normally go very hard and start dripping oil onto the exhaust heat shield.) No1 should be at top dead centre with the match marks on the camshaft timing pulleys lined up with the notches in the rear timing belt cover make sure the crank shaft pulley grove is lined up at zero. I know what you mean about relocating the sensor there is always the possibility the shaft will rotate as it engages into the camshaft gear. I normally insert the sensor then pull it out to see if it has moved and repeat this several time until I happy it hasn’t moved. Another thing I do to make sure No 1 is at top dead centre, instead of looking at the position of the cams through the oil filler hole (as the per the instruction manuals) I remove No1 spark plug and insert a long piece doweling about ? dia just to make sure I’m at the top of the piston stroke. Hope this helps