Bhg vs worn rings vs valve guides
 

Well as many of you have followed my previous issues i have yet one more question before i start ripping my engine apart for my rebuild. Im going to be running a compression test tomorrow, but before i do i would like to know how the numbers should be looking in difference or variation throughout the pistons. Such as. If its a bhg obviously one or two pistons will be considerably lower than the rest, pending how it blew. But if my rings are shot will this look the same? Or will the numbers be a little lower but basically the same across the board? Personally i think this thing is burning waaaay to much oil to be rings. The only possible way i see rings as being my problem is if one of the rings litterally dislocated itself from the piston. I mean i burn ALOT of oil. To be exact probably about a quart in 5-10 miles. I dont know about the rest of you, but that is waaaay to much oil for rings to burn up. Especially if anyone has read the profile on my car recently. Thing is, i wanna rule out hg aswell because i have no coolant issues what so ever, i know it is possible that i could have blown the "combustion chamber to oil galley" but iv heard that it is VERY unlikely to blow JUST that part of the hg. I should mention that it doesnt start to burn oil until about a minute of running. At first its un-noticeable, then after a minute she burns a little out of the exhaust, then when i drive it, it burns mostly from 1-2k rpms while im slippin the clutch driving. I can fill an entire street up with smoke if i wish ;). Kinda odd for it to be rings after only 30k miles of driving. Especially with no abuse, not seeing more than 12psi, and a proper brake in period.

I mentioned before the turbo went, and i thought this issue was the turbo, but i threw a new one of this last sunday and to all avail, still burns oil. I should mention the turbo was used and had some shaft play, so i mean theoretically it could still be the turbo. But theres just way to much crankcase pressure, cause the day i did the turbo was also the day i blew one of the front seals AGAIN. So yea. Patience is running out, im about to rip the engine out of the car.

My memory is shot, so it was you who did the front main seal and oil pump drive shaft seal? Now it blew again? Didn't you PM me about it and I said "excessive crankcase pressure"?

So its blowing front main seals left and right, and burning retarded amounts of oil. Did this motor always do this ever since the first day you got it? I'm leaning toward the rings not being installed properly. The gap in the rings have to be at a certain angle to each other. Or one of the pcv breather lines, mainly the big rubber hose on the intake cam cover is plugged. I don't know, but whatever it is, it doesn't just happen I can assure you that. Your problem is definitely human error, not yours, but whoever built the engine at jasper or whoever installed it.

touche`. I dont catch breaks these days. Im gonna run down stairs in a minute and see if i can suck air out of the pcv line. If i cant. Bingo. If i can im ripping off the valve covers, No.3 cylinder cover, and my plugs to run a comp test. Ill post results tomorrow morning most likely.

Im almost preying its as simple as replacing my turbo and buying new valve covers. As sad as that sounds.

As far as wether this has happened before, it never burned oil when i first got it. Not a bit. Then it did it a little bit, then when it overheated and the other turbo blew, it started to do it alot. Im thinking yea it is the damn turbo. If they improperly installed the rings, the previous compression test wouldn't have shown 175 across the board. But we will see what happens here in this next comp test. Anyone else realize that a comp. test is like the scariest test ull ever take hahaha. ACT's, ASVAB, aint got shit on a compression test haha.

Im thinking the seals in my turbo were going bad, it overheated, that sent the seals over the edge. Then i put this mystery turbo on and the seals are probably blown right off the bat. The shaft play is more than the turbo i took off the car, although theres no grind noise in spool up.

SO ill keep you updated man.

Ok, so it started after you took ownership of the vehicle.

Even if your turbo seals were shot, it would not cause your front main or oil pump drive shaft seals to keep blowing out.

I'm still leaning towards rings. Do the cylinder compression test and post your results. Make sure you pull the 15A EFI fuse out of the fuse box near the battery, make sure the engine is warmed up when you perform the test and don't forget to hold the throttle wide open during the actual cranking.

Ran it today. Under these conditions. 1) I took everything off the top of the engine. (midpipe removed, valve covers removed, no.3 cover removed, all spark plugs removed, cold engine, dry comp test, throttle not held in at all).

Number went as followed.

#1 - 50
#2 - 100
#3 - 70
#4 - 120
#5 - 175
#6 - 32

So uhhh yea. interesting. Ill repost later with more details and comments.

No Need to go any further
 

Those #'s tell us that it's time to rebuild the entire motor, or swap it out for a JDM motor (cheaper, but not as good as a real good rebuild).

And let this fellow's experience be a lesson to everyone else.

Read before buying:
http://www.toyota-supra.info/forums/...ead.php?t=3296

^ *Engine that is. Did u notice i only have 30k miles on this engine? Not just rebuilt, like someone on this forum previously stated remanufactured by jasper.
That been said. Since if this were a bhg issue i would be having cooling system issues. And im not. In any way shape or form. Then this is def rings/valve related. Also, with number like this shouldnt the car ooooo i dont know NOT RUN? Well this isnt the case. It runs fine. On cold start it takes about 2 seconds of cranking to get started, but after it warms up it idles and runs basically normal. Kinda has me wondering if maybe the valves are gummed up to the point where im losing compression in those other cylenders. I think i might try and throw the engine back together and run like an entire bottle of carb cleaner into the intake while the engine is running. See if that clears things up a bit. Also if it were my rings, id immagine the number would be a little more consistant. Here i have 2 cylenders dangerously low, 2 well below par, one a little below normal, and one perfectly normal if not really good. If there was ring falure its unlikely to happen in 4 cylenders. If there was excesive ring wear then the numbers would be more consitant. BUT if i were to say have stuck valves from carbon build up. Any numbers are game.

Either way. Im not rebuilding a damn thing! Do we know why? Oh yea. Its still under warrenty! Ill let jasper deal with it from here. Unless anyone else thinks the valves sticking sounds like a possiblilty. I also have pics of the top of the head and spark plugs that ill post up tomorrow morning.

Performing a compression test.
 

OK....to tell how the valves are, run a comp test on each cyl 3x. Watch the FIRST JUMP of the needle each time, then the last reading. Write it all down.

If the FIRST JUMPS are low, then it comes on up to, say, 110psi, then the valve is bad. If it is low, and it only maxes at, say, 60psi, then the valve it REALLY burnt, or sticking open some.

After doing all this, do it all over again, but (using an oilsquirt can) squirt some oil (about 1 ounce) into each cyl before testing it.

If the final #s come up alot, then the rings are shot.

okay thanks ill try that in a few hours when i get off work. damn third shift :)

Does he have to rebuild the head or just replace the rings..?

This is what jasper lists that comes with the remanufacture. This was done again like i said 30k miles ago.


"GRAPHITE COATED PISTONS:Graphite is a natural lubricant which helps
prevent dry start up and piston scuffing.
MOLY PISTON RINGS:Higher durability, reduce cyl. wall wear.
GRAPHITE HEAD GASKETS:pliable material that does not tear when casting
expand and contract. Graphite gaskets transfer heat evenly and will
not deteriorate around water passages like Kevlar gaskets do.
VITON VALVE STEM SEALS:This material meters oil from the first running
of engine. Its design is extremely resisant to heat, oil additives and
abrasions. OEM PARTS INSTALLED
OEM REAR MAIN SEALS: Are made of Teflon material which will resist
heat and oil additives w/o damage.
"

It was I going on about the jasper engine because I thought of buying one for my na. But I don't know anyone that has one till now. And it seems he's not really thrilled. So I'll probably rebuild and then rebuild again.

Dont get me wrong, im still pleased with this engine. Even though this one isnt exactly up to par. The warrenty is gonna save my ass here. All the gas engines are warrented up to 3 year/75,000 miles standard. You cant go wrong. There was obvisouly something third party here that cause'd my engine to have a psychotic break down lol.

Do it right. Do it all. Or pay for it later, by doing it all over again.

Like i said. Jasper will take care of it from here. This is why i love jasper. I called them about an hour ago and this is how it went.

I called him told him about the rings being shot. Told him the comp numbers. And then he said this.

him "well what are you asking from me"
me "Im just curious what my options are"
him "are you asking for a new engine?"
me "is that one of my options?"
him "if you want it to be"
me "then if possible yea id like a new engine"
him "okay we can do that for ya"
me "awsome how soon do i have to wait"
him "umm let me check"
2 mins pass
him "i can have one delivered to you tomorrow"
me "are u kidding"
him "no, well deliver this one tomorrow, then you have 30 days to tell us when we can come pick up the old one for core"

So basically there giving me a whole new engine, on a one day turn around. All i have to do is give them my old one within 30 days. I thought this to be amazing. And thats complete remanufactered engine 100% fresh with the specs i listed previously.

I've used them, no problems
 

Well that pretty much settles it.
If my build doesn't last I'll buy an engine from them.
I thought about it hard core and decided to rebuild the upper half of what I have.

You can't really beat there prices with the warranty and all. I would do this over JDM any day I have been telling people about this place for over a year.

It's nice to actually be in a forum where I know people are actually listening to me, lol.

mrnickleye: I wanted to ask about the rings. again because I'm paying to have my head rebuilt. not ported and polished just placed back to as close to oem as it can be made. Thanks for the responce. All of you. Thanks.

I know this is a day late and and a dollar short, but you didn't perform that compression test properly. You must hold the throttle wide open during the actual testing of the cylinder. I know your readings are all way too low anyways so in this case it didn't matter.

I can't believe that engine even ran. :eek:

I'm kind of curious as to how you think that holding the throttle wide open is going to have any affect on checking compression. It doesn't matter. A compression test is a compression test is a compression test. I don't need to hold the throttle open on any vehicle, let alone a third gen Supra to find out that it has broke/worn rings, or sticking valves. Pull the plugs, stick your compression gauge in, crank the engine with the fuel pump fuse pulled, and check what you get. The throttle has no affect on the cylinder's compression.

Wrong buddy. Yes it does matter. The throttle must be all the way open to get an accurate compression reading. Time to go back to tech school and learn how to perform diagnostic procedures correctly. Oh wait, did you even go to tech school? I doubt it.

Check any tech book or repair manual.

TSRM doesn't say it, but the haynes does. I don't trust the TSRM anymore anyway.

Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't post, its that simple. I know what I'm talking about because I was taught by a professional, not some hack who doesn't pay attention to details.

Yea you make a point. If the trottle plate is closed than you wont be pulling all the air into the combustion chamber thats available. But with comp numbers like mine, it doesnt matter. Theres obviously a ring falure. For those curious. I got my jasper engine already. Less than 24 hours after i called them and told them there engine was shot i had a guy in a jasper delivery dropping the crate off in front of my house with a new 3yr warrenty. It came with the oil pump oil of the engine, and a full engine gasket set for me to use during the installation. Now thats service. Ill try and post pics later today or tomorrow.

Knowledge is vital
 

Monkey......What we 'think' is correct, and what 'is' correct just might 'be' 2 different things.

The throttle must also be held open. Check here:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/compression.htm

5. Block the throttle open. Check here:

http://www.georgiazclub.com/tips/ztech/comptest.htm

Hold the throttle to full open position to ensure the engine gets adequate air intake. Check here:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/art...l.jsp?id=16170

Open the throttle fully either by pressing the accelerator or wedging the linkage open under the bonnet. If the throttle isn't open then adequate air can't get into the cylinder and the readings will be far too low. Check here:

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/comp.htm


I've found thru 22 years as an ASE Master Tech, specializing in engine diagnostics, that simply 'asking' about a procedure can get you correct information much easier than 'asserting' what you think is correct in an "I know better" way.

IHateHacks language may sound a bit rough, but is to the point.


As a technical training instructor for several years, I learned a lot about 'presenting' information to students.

I prefer to back it up with references.

Simply put: Research, analyse, ask and resolve any questions, understand, know.

PS: Google is your friend !

yea. i know. But my point is, the numbers i made, were WAAAAYYYY to low for the throttle plate to matter. A 5 yr old who still shits himself at night could figure that out.