Engine oil flow

Stanmk3 · 06-17-2007, 04:20 AM

Hi guys.Im new to this forum.I just bought my first Supra Turbo about 2 months ago.I bought her with a BHG though,still waiting for ordered parts so i can start workin on her.

Im gonna do a complete overhaul and rebuild,and wanne get a better oil flow/oil pressure.Ive read many posts about the 7m engine dosent have a great oil system for overboosting,and ive done a few posts trying to find out what i can do to better it with not much success.Only thing ive done that will give at least abit better flow is the toga pump.
For instance,ive heard talk about bypass valves in the oil system that isnt good at all
Any ideas on how to improve this?

Also,any tips as to what safc to get?

Thanks

cre · 06-17-2007, 07:21 AM

Well, my first question would be which engine? 7M, 1JZ or 1G?

To say that any of them have oil problems makes it out to be worse than it is. Most of Toyota's engines of that generation had high flow, low pressure oil systems. In highly modified 7M's shimming the relief valve is somewhat popular, but if you're going as far as pulling the oil pan you really should put in a new pump. After all, we're talking about a car that is almost 20 years old, springs soften, pathways get clogged, gears wear and pumps weaken.

SAFC? Are you only interested in Apexi fuel controllers? If so the SAFC II is the what I see the most in our cars... it should be easy to find support for. The Apexi Neo has gained a lot of interest but I don't think I've heard of more then a couple people using it so far. Personally, if I were looking for a basic fuel controller, I would probably go with the SAFC II... but I'm running a MAFT Pro which fills that requirement along with a few more.

The MAFT Pro is a piggyback which not only offer fuel tuning, but timing control, MAF translation or Speed/Density conversion and boost control. It's not a simple system and support for the MKIII Supra with it can be VERY hard to find locally. Online support is decent and hopefully will be getting MUCH better soon.

Stanmk3 · 06-17-2007, 07:34 AM

Thanks for the input cre

However,ill have to quote myself hehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanmk3

Ive read many posts about the 7m engine dosent have a great oil system for overboosting,and ive done a few posts trying to find out what i can do to better it with not much success

Its a 7mgte.Ive already ordered a new toga pump.When you say the relief valve,do you mean shim the spring on the oilpump?

Im more or less still a rookie when it comes to engine managment.How har is it to install a MAFT pro

cre · 06-17-2007, 08:28 AM

The spring that people shim is for the relief valve (or bypass valve) for the oil pump. This diverts oil from the pump should the pressure exceed specifications. I'm sorry, I don't recall all the details. It's been covered on SM and SF in depth though... possibly here.

The physical installation of the MAFT Pro isn't too bad at all. Setting it up in MAF translation mode (which is where you would replace the stock air flow meter for a less restrictive, larger diameter Mass Air Flow sensor such as the 3.5" LS-1 GM MAF) isn't terribly difficult. Setting the system up for speed/density (which removes almost all intake restriction) can be a bit tricky and sometimes hard to get get "just right". This system grants you a LOT more control over your vehicle than any other individual piggyback. In my opinion, it really bridges the gap between piggybacks and complete standalones as far as what it offers.

Here's a little more specifc info, keep in mind that this thread is for people with N/A's looking to add a turbo:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=50

Here's a list of all the settings in the MAFT Pro v4.80 software:
http://www.fadingworld.com/Supra/MAFT/Manual%204.80.php
This list may have some inaccuracies, but it'll give you an idea of what you need to learn if you choose this route.

Stanmk3 · 06-17-2007, 08:54 AM

Like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAF-T...QQcmdZViewItem ?

I already have the 3.5" lexus afm.Is there anything else i would need for the maft pro to work? sensors etc?

cre · 06-17-2007, 09:18 AM

Yes, like that one. Actually, the seller in that auction is Dr. Jonez. He's a very active member in the MKIII community and is largely to thank for the MAFT Pro supporting our car (he worked directly with the people who make it), and is an official vendor.

From what I recall, the Lexus AFM housing isn't 3.5" (90mm) and has a lot more restriction than even a 3" GM MAF. GM MAF's are inexpensive, less restrictive and a lot more durable than the MKIII Turbo's Karmen Vortex AFM.

(Didn't I cover all of this in that thread I gave you the link to?)

If you want to be able to use the Boost Control feature you need to go with a speed/density setup. This system uses a manifold pressure sensor and a temperature sensor to calculate the amount of air entering the engine. The pressure sensor is required by the boost control software.

You can use the MAFT Pro with stock MKIII Turbo electronics (using the Lexus AFM in the MKIII still requires you to swap in the stock sensors from your original AFM). In this setup it acts like a fuel controller and timing controller... but I don't think it supports boost control. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that at least for now boost control ONLY works with a speed density setup. Besides, switching to either a huge MAF or going to a speed/density setup is a big step up.

If you're comfortable with the Lex AFM mod and doen't want to have to play around with all the settings to get the car running like a champ then stick with the SAFC II.

As with any piggyback, it is STRONGLY advised that you get a wideband 02 controller and sensor to track your air to fuel mixture... one of the easiest ways to kill a perfectly good engine is by tuning blindly.

If you do want to look into the MAFT Pro further shoot me a PM and I can help you track down wiring diagrams and writeups.

By the way, I have a N/A MKIII (actually, the only N/A MKIII running the MAFT Pro... for now). It's a rather different setup than the setup on Turbo MKIII's. I am currently running a 3.5" GM MAF, but I intend on switching to speed/density both so I can do another writeup for the N/A owners out there and to get ready for when I have the time to bolt on my turbo.

EDIT: Oh, as for additional items needed: It depends on the setup you decide is right for you. If you decide to speed density you'll need a MAP sensor (pressure) and an IAT sensor (temp.) and a wire harness (which you could make yourself if you feel up to it. If you want to go MAF then you just need a GM MAF and a wire harness. For the boost control again a harness and a specific vacuum solenoid. If you just want to use the fuel tuning with your existing setup then all you need is the MAFT Pro and the included wiring.

Stanmk3 · 06-17-2007, 04:20 PM

Actually ive never heard of the GM MAF before you mentioned it.Found a few on ebay.This is what youre talking about right?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/gm-ma...ayphotohosting

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-5-G...spagenameZWDVW

As for boost control i got a blitz solenoid controller installed already

Is there any specific features you would get with the maft pro speed/density setup compared to just using my blitz to controll the boost?

As for other mods,heres a list so you know what i got:

-Reworked botton end w/ Wiseco std size pistons,Eagle rods(not here until august so will use std rods for now),Arp and clevite33 all around,Toga oil pump
-Ported and polished head (being done as we speak) w/ std cams
-Cometic 2.0mm steel head gasket
-A1000 fuel pres regulator
-Walbro 255
-680cc low imp injectors from fiveomotorsport..not sure what make these are as i havent recieved em yet.Anyway quality was garanteed
-AEM Wideband controller w/ 02 sensor
-Other gauges like fuel pressure,boost etc
-RPS stage 3 clutch - 6 puck w/ new bearing kit
-Greddy timing belt
-3" Custom stainless steel exhaust
-Blitz solenoid dual stage boost controller

And lots of other bits and pieces that dont really apply to the engine build

and probably a few that i forgot to mention

ethan12510 · 06-18-2007, 12:51 AM

so you can my that gm maf and it will work in place of our MAf?

cre · 06-18-2007, 04:42 AM

A couple basics here. MAF is a term specific to certain types of air flow meters. The generic term used by Toyota and a few other companies is AFM. The MKIII does not have a MAF. The turbo model has a KV AFM and the non-turbo has a VAF.

Thanks to the MAFT Pro, I do have a MAF in my N/A.

Stan, given everything you've got in your build already I would personally probably choose to go with a speed density setup. Either will work fine though. Yes, those are the type of MAF I'm referring to, although removing the screen isn't recommended. The screen serves one more function than that seller mentions, it makes sure that the air flowing through the sensor is evenly distributed. If the MAF were placed right after a bend in the pipe a lot of air would slip by that the hot wires don't see.... then you run lean, possibly VERY lean.

I just got back from test driving the turbo MKIII I've been setting up for speed/density... WOW. I love that car, too bad I won't have for more than another week.

It's not a horrible system to setup, but it's easy to get intimidated by it.

06-17-2007, 04:20 AM	#1
Stanmk3 Stock Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 7	7mgte oil flow Hi guys.Im new to this forum.I just bought my first Supra Turbo about 2 months ago.I bought her with a BHG though,still waiting for ordered parts so i can start workin on her. Im gonna do a complete overhaul and rebuild,and wanne get a better oil flow/oil pressure.Ive read many posts about the 7m engine dosent have a great oil system for overboosting,and ive done a few posts trying to find out what i can do to better it with not much success.Only thing ive done that will give at least abit better flow is the toga pump. For instance,ive heard talk about bypass valves in the oil system that isnt good at all Any ideas on how to improve this? Also,any tips as to what safc to get? Thanks Last edited by Stanmk3; 06-17-2007 at 04:59 AM.

06-17-2007, 09:18 AM	#6
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Yes, like that one. Actually, the seller in that auction is Dr. Jonez. He's a very active member in the MKIII community and is largely to thank for the MAFT Pro supporting our car (he worked directly with the people who make it), and is an official vendor. From what I recall, the Lexus AFM housing isn't 3.5" (90mm) and has a lot more restriction than even a 3" GM MAF. GM MAF's are inexpensive, less restrictive and a lot more durable than the MKIII Turbo's Karmen Vortex AFM. (Didn't I cover all of this in that thread I gave you the link to?) If you want to be able to use the Boost Control feature you need to go with a speed/density setup. This system uses a manifold pressure sensor and a temperature sensor to calculate the amount of air entering the engine. The pressure sensor is required by the boost control software. You can use the MAFT Pro with stock MKIII Turbo electronics (using the Lexus AFM in the MKIII still requires you to swap in the stock sensors from your original AFM). In this setup it acts like a fuel controller and timing controller... but I don't think it supports boost control. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that at least for now boost control ONLY works with a speed density setup. Besides, switching to either a huge MAF or going to a speed/density setup is a big step up. If you're comfortable with the Lex AFM mod and doen't want to have to play around with all the settings to get the car running like a champ then stick with the SAFC II. As with any piggyback, it is STRONGLY advised that you get a wideband 02 controller and sensor to track your air to fuel mixture... one of the easiest ways to kill a perfectly good engine is by tuning blindly. If you do want to look into the MAFT Pro further shoot me a PM and I can help you track down wiring diagrams and writeups. By the way, I have a N/A MKIII (actually, the only N/A MKIII running the MAFT Pro... for now). It's a rather different setup than the setup on Turbo MKIII's. I am currently running a 3.5" GM MAF, but I intend on switching to speed/density both so I can do another writeup for the N/A owners out there and to get ready for when I have the time to bolt on my turbo. EDIT: Oh, as for additional items needed: It depends on the setup you decide is right for you. If you decide to speed density you'll need a MAP sensor (pressure) and an IAT sensor (temp.) and a wire harness (which you could make yourself if you feel up to it. If you want to go MAF then you just need a GM MAF and a wire harness. For the boost control again a harness and a specific vacuum solenoid. If you just want to use the fuel tuning with your existing setup then all you need is the MAFT Pro and the included wiring. Last edited by cre; 06-17-2007 at 10:16 AM.

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06-17-2007, 07:21 AM	#2
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	Well, my first question would be which engine? 7M, 1JZ or 1G? To say that any of them have oil problems makes it out to be worse than it is. Most of Toyota's engines of that generation had high flow, low pressure oil systems. In highly modified 7M's shimming the relief valve is somewhat popular, but if you're going as far as pulling the oil pan you really should put in a new pump. After all, we're talking about a car that is almost 20 years old, springs soften, pathways get clogged, gears wear and pumps weaken. SAFC? Are you only interested in Apexi fuel controllers? If so the SAFC II is the what I see the most in our cars... it should be easy to find support for. The Apexi Neo has gained a lot of interest but I don't think I've heard of more then a couple people using it so far. Personally, if I were looking for a basic fuel controller, I would probably go with the SAFC II... but I'm running a MAFT Pro which fills that requirement along with a few more. The MAFT Pro is a piggyback which not only offer fuel tuning, but timing control, MAF translation or Speed/Density conversion and boost control. It's not a simple system and support for the MKIII Supra with it can be VERY hard to find locally. Online support is decent and hopefully will be getting MUCH better soon.

06-17-2007, 08:28 AM	#4
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	The spring that people shim is for the relief valve (or bypass valve) for the oil pump. This diverts oil from the pump should the pressure exceed specifications. I'm sorry, I don't recall all the details. It's been covered on SM and SF in depth though... possibly here. The physical installation of the MAFT Pro isn't too bad at all. Setting it up in MAF translation mode (which is where you would replace the stock air flow meter for a less restrictive, larger diameter Mass Air Flow sensor such as the 3.5" LS-1 GM MAF) isn't terribly difficult. Setting the system up for speed/density (which removes almost all intake restriction) can be a bit tricky and sometimes hard to get get "just right". This system grants you a LOT more control over your vehicle than any other individual piggyback. In my opinion, it really bridges the gap between piggybacks and complete standalones as far as what it offers. Here's a little more specifc info, keep in mind that this thread is for people with N/A's looking to add a turbo: http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=50 Here's a list of all the settings in the MAFT Pro v4.80 software: http://www.fadingworld.com/Supra/MAFT/Manual%204.80.php This list may have some inaccuracies, but it'll give you an idea of what you need to learn if you choose this route.

06-17-2007, 08:54 AM	#5
Stanmk3 Stock Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 7	Like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAF-T...QQcmdZViewItem ? I already have the 3.5" lexus afm.Is there anything else i would need for the maft pro to work? sensors etc?

06-17-2007, 04:20 PM	#7
Stanmk3 Stock Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 7	Actually ive never heard of the GM MAF before you mentioned it.Found a few on ebay.This is what youre talking about right? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/gm-ma...ayphotohosting or http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-5-G...spagenameZWDVW As for boost control i got a blitz solenoid controller installed already Is there any specific features you would get with the maft pro speed/density setup compared to just using my blitz to controll the boost? As for other mods,heres a list so you know what i got: -Reworked botton end w/ Wiseco std size pistons,Eagle rods(not here until august so will use std rods for now),Arp and clevite33 all around,Toga oil pump -Ported and polished head (being done as we speak) w/ std cams -Cometic 2.0mm steel head gasket -A1000 fuel pres regulator -Walbro 255 -680cc low imp injectors from fiveomotorsport..not sure what make these are as i havent recieved em yet.Anyway quality was garanteed -AEM Wideband controller w/ 02 sensor -Other gauges like fuel pressure,boost etc -RPS stage 3 clutch - 6 puck w/ new bearing kit -Greddy timing belt -3" Custom stainless steel exhaust -Blitz solenoid dual stage boost controller And lots of other bits and pieces that dont really apply to the engine build and probably a few that i forgot to mention

06-18-2007, 12:51 AM	#8
ethan12510 3" Exhaust Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Queensbury Ny Posts: 117	so you can my that gm maf and it will work in place of our MAf?

06-18-2007, 04:42 AM	#9
cre Toyota Racing Development Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,038	A couple basics here. MAF is a term specific to certain types of air flow meters. The generic term used by Toyota and a few other companies is AFM. The MKIII does not have a MAF. The turbo model has a KV AFM and the non-turbo has a VAF. Thanks to the MAFT Pro, I do have a MAF in my N/A. Stan, given everything you've got in your build already I would personally probably choose to go with a speed density setup. Either will work fine though. Yes, those are the type of MAF I'm referring to, although removing the screen isn't recommended. The screen serves one more function than that seller mentions, it makes sure that the air flowing through the sensor is evenly distributed. If the MAF were placed right after a bend in the pipe a lot of air would slip by that the hot wires don't see.... then you run lean, possibly VERY lean. I just got back from test driving the turbo MKIII I've been setting up for speed/density... WOW. I love that car, too bad I won't have for more than another week. It's not a horrible system to setup, but it's easy to get intimidated by it.