V8 MKIV Supra from Saint Lucia.KHAOS!

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by bambuko

No, it would likely be heavier. No argument there. However, if I was trying to lighten the Supra to offset that weight gain, the added torque is well worth it in my opinion. Of course, you'd have to do serious weight reduction, I'm not talking about swapping the battery, wheels and seats =)

The super GT Supra utilized the V8 in the later years of its racing career. The hybrid one currently does as well. It's all about blasting that torque coming out of corners

Anywhoo, just my two cents.

Common misconception: turbos build plenty of torque.

Where I can agree with you is that turbos bring that torque on less consistenly/predictably than n/a. That predictability is desireable when you're at the bleeding edge of traction coming out of a corner.

[bambuko]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Common misconception: turbos build plenty of torque.

Where I can agree with you is that turbos bring that torque on less consistenly/predictably than n/a. That predictability is desireable when you're at the bleeding edge of traction coming out of a corner.

Yep exactly. Not only do V8s build torque more predictably, but they do build it faster. It's instant, which is what you want. Turbos can certainly out torque V8s (and do so very frequently), but even small ball bearing turbos need an instant to build that torque.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by bambuko

Yep exactly. Not only do V8s build torque more predictably, but they do build it faster. It's instant, which is what you want. Turbos can certainly out torque V8s (and do so very frequently), but even small ball bearing turbos need an instant to build that torque.

Actually v8s don't necessarily build torque faster...at higher rpms, turbos can spool almost instantly. In fact, the only reason turbos aren't roadraced much is because that instant torque-boost can (and does) actually come on instantly (albeit unpredictably) mid rpms...and that unpredictable instant torque-boost does cause traction loss mid-corner.

[bambuko]

Regardless, a NA V8 will always have better response and build torque faster than a FI 6. The sudden spike of torque from a turbo is predictable, actually, it's just not as stable as instant torque that increases more linearly. Not saying a FI 6 can't put out crushing torque early in the power band (for example with two small and fast spooling turbos), it just has more of a delay (doesn't matter how relatively small or not that delay is, it is still *there*).

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by bambuko

Regardless, a NA V8 will always have better response and build torque faster than a FI 6. The sudden spike of torque from a turbo is predictable, actually, it's just not as stable as instant torque that increases more linearly. Not saying a FI 6 can't put out crushing torque early in the power band (for example with two small and fast spooling turbos), it just has more of a delay (doesn't matter how relatively small or not that delay is, it is still *there*).

Even a big block, high compression v8 does not have a vertical torque curve. My point is that "early in the power band" is irrelevant - just downshift. At higher rpms (relative to turbo size) torque increases just as fast as with a larger displacement n/a, if not faster.

[bambuko]

Yes, but torque starts at a higher point in a larger NA motor, because it comes quicker when you first hit the gas. As I've already said earlier, a FI turbo'd motor can easily put out more torque but there is no way you can rationally argue that a turbo'd engine has the same response and instant torque as a larger naturally aspirated engine.

It appears that we can't come to an agreement. Perhaps you should go over to Toyota and tell them they raced the Supra incorrectly all those years, that a 6 cylinder is the better set up. Or the current Supra hybrid entering in LeMans soon. Or even better, go over to Nissan and tell them the same thing since that's what they also use a NA V8 in their GTR race car!

Or how about this: you're right. Feel better? Good night, chap.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by bambuko

Yes, but torque starts at a higher point in a larger NA motor, because it comes quicker when you first hit the gas. As I've already said earlier, a FI turbo'd motor can easily put out more torque but there is no way you can rationally argue that a turbo'd engine has the same response and instant torque as a larger naturally aspirated engine.

It appears that we can't come to an agreement. Perhaps you should go over to Toyota and tell them they raced the Supra incorrectly all those years, that a 6 cylinder is the better set up. Or the current Supra hybrid entering in LeMans soon. Or even better, go over to Nissan and tell them the same thing since that's what they also use a NA V8 in their GTR race car!

Or how about this: you're right. Feel better? Good night, chap.

No need to get stressed - I thought we were having a good, objective, friendly discussion. Apologies if I offended you.

Regarding Toyota's super GT racing, or any officially-sanctioned race event, there will be rules. Things like boost, displacement, weight, modifications, etc. are highly regulated. I'm sure Toyota was 'correct' in their setup, based on the rules & restrictions they had at the time. All that said, I wouldn't say they should have run a turbo (even if a rule was the only torque-related reason they didn't) - as I've already stated, turbos aren't ideal for roadracing due to their somewhat inconsistent power delivery relative to rpms.