Gentlemens Agreement

[kylej]

I'm importing a 94 tt supra w/ 34xxx miles on it. I live in Canada and from what I understand the gentlemens agreement limits the car to 276whp instead of the 326whp that the car is capable of. I was just wondering whats the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to get rid of the limiters, rev limiter, speed limiter, and hp/torque limiters.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by kylej

I'm importing a 94 tt supra w/ 34xxx miles on it. I live in Canada and from what I understand the gentlemens agreement limits the car to 276whp instead of the 326whp that the car is capable of. I was just wondering whats the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to get rid of the limiters, rev limiter, speed limiter, and hp/torque limiters.

I'm not sure what you mean by "gentleman's agreement". The Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra TT has smaller (ceramic) turbos, smaller injectors, and a smaller intake cam. The most effective way to bring the Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra TT up to the capabilities of the US-spec Mkiv Supra TT would be to replace these items with their US-spec equivalents (including the resistor pack). Note that these changes would necessitate re-tuning, for which you'd also need something like an A'PEXi AFC-neo:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5347

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_...2.80.932002.29
http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/to...d-m-supra.html
http://gonzaloherrero.com/bnr/index....=79&Itemid=103

For whatever little it may be worth, I don't believe you asked me the right question. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask the following question:
"I'll have a Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra TT, bone-stock; what's the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to make xxxRWHP?"

[kylej]

The Gentlemens agreement is an agreement made that all vehicles leave country would be de-tuned from the 326 hp and 318 torque to 276 hp and I'm not sure about the torque. Atleast being imported to Canada that is how it is. As for the ceramic turbo's I don't think they are smaller, just made differently? I know importing a jdm supra they run less boost (turned down), are majorly limited by exhaust, smaller cam intake may be true. I think this is how they limit the power, not through an actual ECU detune or anything. Like vw I know can be chipped taking off factory limiters adding power but I think importing a mk4 supra the boost is just turned down and the exhaust limits everything, as well as the small 440cc injectors compared to the usdm 550cc injectors.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by kylej

The Gentlemens agreement is an agreement made that all vehicles leave country would be de-tuned from the 326 hp and 318 torque to 276 hp and I'm not sure about the torque. Atleast being imported to Canada that is how it is. As for the ceramic turbo's I don't think they are smaller, just made differently? I know importing a jdm supra they run less boost (turned down), are majorly limited by exhaust, smaller cam intake may be true. I think this is how they limit the power, not through an actual ECU detune or anything. Like vw I know can be chipped taking off factory limiters adding power but I think importing a mk4 supra the boost is just turned down and the exhaust limits everything, as well as the small 440cc injectors compared to the usdm 550cc injectors.

You may be correct about the size of the Japanese spec oem Mkiv Supra twin turbos. However, the ceramic turbine is less rugged when it comes to handling higher boost levels.

Note that it's very easy to crank up the boost:
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/clamp_mod/_clamp.jpg
...just be sure you have a boost gauge, and enough octane in your fuel (i.e. add race fuel) to match the boost level.

I agree the smaller Japanese-spec downpipe also limits performance vs. the US-spec Mkiv Supra TT.

Regarding the "gentleman's agreement", who asked for it...and who did he/she ask? Did Akio Toyoda shake hands with Stephen Harper?

[kylej]

I don't know how the gentlemens agreement got started all I know is it states by Canadian law that vehicles must be over 15 years old and I think Canada and Japan had an agreement that cars could not be imported with over 276 hp, from my understandings.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by kylej

I don't know how the gentlemens agreement got started all I know is it states by Canadian law that vehicles must be over 15 years old and I think Canada and Japan had an agreement that cars could not be imported with over 276 hp, from my understandings.

To me, that sounds very strange. I do appreciate you sharing the information that you have available though.

For me, until I see something about this "gentleman's agreement" in writing, I'm going to assume that Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra Turbos were originally advertised within Japan at 276hp. I really can't see any government-related agency going in and installing new parts to de-tune used cars, and then running them on the dyno to verify they haven't screwed them up and that the de-tuning was actually successful. I see this scenario as completely impractical, since a used Supra is a crap-shoot - poorly maintained and driven the heck out of, all the hoses and electrical connectors might be so hard they crack whenever something new is installed. There'd be a VERY unpredictable amount of labor and inconvienience in obtaining new oem hoses, electrical connectors, etc. in doing this work. *shrug*

[mk4respect]

Ah yes, the gentlemen's agreement. Officially, no production car in Japan is supposed to be listed with more than 280 horsepower at the flywheel. I think the guys at Mazda probably got over the GT-R's stock power when they found out Nissan could pop on an optimized ECU and squeeze 360 out of the RB26DETT. They were more than happy with the stock computer then. :smoker2:

The JDM MKIV Supra TT was spec'ed at 280 hp. And it seems that it was actually limited to that. The U.S. Supra went 13.3 in the 1.4 mile, while the Japanese Supra came in at 14 flat, 7/10s of a second slower! An American-market car that's faster than its Japanese domestic cousin? Sounds crazy. The JDM Supra came with smaller injectors (430cc vs. 540) and a different final drive. So they didn't just "chip it" like many other manufacturers did.

The NSX at least used to conform to the 280 limit. I remember one dynoing at 270. Of course, who knows how much it puts out above redline. Redline is 8k, but the rev limiter doesn't kick in until 8300 (don't tell the owner I know this!). Remember, the numbers they give you in the U.S. don't necessarily reflect what they tell the people of Japan.

As far as I know, the agreement is still in effect. In fact, I believe it's law. Japan has always had some interesting laws concerning automotibiles, and many of these are responsible for the development of the high-tech, small-displacement motors we know and love. In other words, if it wasn't for weird regulations and subsidies, I might be cruising around in a pushrod 650ZX Twin Ram-Air. Ack, that sent a shiver down my spine...

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic40821.htm


here ya go.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by mk4respect

Ah yes, the gentlemen's agreement. Officially, no production car in Japan is supposed to be listed with more than 280 horsepower at the flywheel. I think the guys at Mazda probably got over the GT-R's stock power when they found out Nissan could pop on an optimized ECU and squeeze 360 out of the RB26DETT. They were more than happy with the stock computer then. :smoker2:

The JDM MKIV Supra TT was spec'ed at 280 hp. And it seems that it was actually limited to that. The U.S. Supra went 13.3 in the 1.4 mile, while the Japanese Supra came in at 14 flat, 7/10s of a second slower! An American-market car that's faster than its Japanese domestic cousin? Sounds crazy. The JDM Supra came with smaller injectors (430cc vs. 540) and a different final drive. So they didn't just "chip it" like many other manufacturers did.

The NSX at least used to conform to the 280 limit. I remember one dynoing at 270. Of course, who knows how much it puts out above redline. Redline is 8k, but the rev limiter doesn't kick in until 8300 (don't tell the owner I know this!). Remember, the numbers they give you in the U.S. don't necessarily reflect what they tell the people of Japan.

As far as I know, the agreement is still in effect. In fact, I believe it's law. Japan has always had some interesting laws concerning automotibiles, and many of these are responsible for the development of the high-tech, small-displacement motors we know and love. In other words, if it wasn't for weird regulations and subsidies, I might be cruising around in a pushrod 650ZX Twin Ram-Air. Ack, that sent a shiver down my spine...

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic40821.htm


here ya go.

Thanks for the info (+1 rep ).

Interesting to see that this "gentleman's agreement" has *nothing at all* to do with exporting used vehicles to Canada.