looking for some fast answers

quicklee · 09-10-2005, 06:40 PM

I'm seriously shopping for my next go-fast toy...

what do I realistically need to plan on spending, if I'm to get into a MK4 Supra TT

I'd be modding into the 500+ HP daily driver region......

if you had 1o-15 set aside for a project car and could have one of the following , which would it be, why

-MK4 Supra TT
-TT stealth/3000gt
-rx7
-dsm
-300z

whitetiger777 · 09-10-2005, 10:35 PM

The dsm is rather simple to mod once yo have it. Make sure you've got the 4G63 engin in it though. The only thing with DSMs is the the balence shaft like to freeze. You have to replace it with a dummy one out of a miage if you want to make it a reliable daily driver. Also Depending on the year you might want to make a switch over to what is called a 6-bolt. It's just a stronger engine than the 7-bolt.

Poodles · 09-11-2005, 05:33 AM

sadly you won't find a MKIV for under $25k unless it's a scam...or wrecked.

RX-7's are nice...though I have a personal bone to pick with them. RX-7's need a motor rebuild every 50k miles, it's not hard, someone can actually do it themselves pretty easy, it just takes the proper tools, time, and directions.

3000gt...nah, too much money involved in making them go fast.

300Z....yep, cool cars, I'd love to have one myself, and they aren't as expensive as a MKIV...about the same price range as a MKIII.

Eclipses can be made fast...but the tranny and drivetrain will break and need service often. They's also slower than the rest of the cars on your list and have less displacement...you're starting with less...

quicklee · 09-11-2005, 02:26 PM

I've had DSM's, so I'm quite familiar with their downsides, you forgot to mention how scarey it is to take one past 120 or so, though... (it's like riding in a go cart... ) the 6 bolt swap is done because of the inherent CRANKWALK issues that plague the 7 bolt version. availability, btw IS an issue these days

I had a TT Stealth, but didn't keep it long enough to mod it/drive it much

You know, IF we compare apples to apples,

-I wonder what a typical set of results would look like?

here's a sample scenario:

#A is a 1993 Supra TT
-$25k for the car
-$5k for mods
_______________
$30k project...

#B is a 1993 Stealth RT TT
-$10K for the car
-$20K for mods

__________________
$30k project, with heavy emphasis on project

The Sup. is now worth about $26,500.00 and is simpler to maintain
(simple, manual trans, RWD sportscar)

The Dodge is now worth $12-13k and requires a shitload of constant attention
(NOT simple, highly modded, AWD/AWS/etc... )

20k worth of mods in an AWD TT sportscar would undoubtedly be a BLAST!
But, which car would YOU rather have?

BTW, I wasn't really aware of Mazda's reliability issues. I generally build all my own engines/trannys/axles/whatever, but every 50k! that's ridiculous!

back to the 300Z candidate, I've seen quite a few turbo z's for under 12k or so... back in the day, the Z's seemed to be toe to toe with the 3/S's ?
anyone have experience modding these cars?

now I do have another consideration, since we're talking mid 20's for the platform, that puts late 80's / early 90's Porsche Carrera 4's onto the roster.
(AWD & TURBO, already has Big Reds and kickass suspension, EASY to wrench on, parts aren't that expensive... )

whitetiger777 · 09-11-2005, 05:19 PM

Actulay I find my DSM rather fast. My friend who has the same mods as I do is pulling mid 11's, where as the one time a supra (NA) showed up it was pulling mid to low 14's. The funny thing about the crank walk issue is, for some reason if it hasn't delevoped it by 50000 miles it more than likely wont. Also it has the AWD option you are talking about. It blows somepeople away to see a 97 Eclipse jump of the line with no tire spin or hop. Also hitting your goal of 500 hp is very atainable in a DSM, and cheaper than all your other options.

The RX-7 has the potential to be the fastest. It ways nearly nothing and has an amasizing power plant int it. I hear that some aironotical people are actualy putting the 14B in their airplanes. The problem with the car is that the US forced emission controll on it cause some problems for US cars the the Japanese cars don't have. Such as the cat sits right upnder the turbo causing more heat to the turbo and more heat under the hood. However, there is a kit that moves the cat under the pasenger seat. Also I hear that the plastic fans can melt due to engine heat so they must be replaced with metal ones. Also I hear of random engine fires in that car. I think it's due to the routing of the fuel line...I think. As fot the engine, it can be very strong. The engine takes less stress under boost due to the way the engine is desigened. Think about it in a piston car a piston is constanly being slamed down and pushed back up, which puts a lot of stress on the rods. A roatary engine is just pushed into a circle faster and faster. The problem with most people is they treat it like a piston engine, and it's not. You have to keep an eye on the oil levels because it burns oil like a two stroke, and some other things. The engines can last over 100000 miles if you know how to treat them.

quicklee · 09-11-2005, 05:31 PM

I've found BOTH my DSM's were fast! I'm just pointing out the fact that they get pretty squirrelly at high speed.

I've never looked into RX's much, though... I have a basic understanding of the rotart, but have never considered it's relationship to forced induction situations. -Interesting

I didn't mention, though, that I live in The Rocky's. Vail, CO to be exact. AWD is quite desirable here

Poodles · 09-12-2005, 10:52 PM

Rebuilding the rotory is suggested by the best tuners every 50k miles because it's NOT that hard to do. Pulling the engine in a rotory is easy, and it's TINY, one person can lift it easy. They are stupidly simple, but people are scared of them because it's not a conventional design. The bearings are the wear items, and if they fail, it's bad... But they're easy to replace, there are only 2 of them and the concentric, ect...very very simple, if you can work on a normal car well, rotory is easy.

RX-7's have crap for torque, and only until the wind up do they actually start to fly, race one in a supra and you'll beat em off the line and all the way to 60 easy....then the stupid RX-7 starts pulling....HARD.

FYI, the wankel engine (a rotory) was actually designed as a supercharger. Much like the turbo was designed as a supercharger, then they decided to put the fuel directly in and got the jet engine.

The last bodystyle RX-7 is the best, light, great handling, best engine, and ALL where twin turboed. If you're looking for reliabilty, the Supra is by far the strongest of the bunch, and except for the clutch on the MKIV, the rest of the car will handle well over 2x the power (over 1000hp on the stock tranny and drivetrain is the norm it seems).

Personally, it would be Surpa, RX-7, Z, 3000GT, Eclipse. My friend owned an eclipse turbo AWD...it was alright, but not nearly as nice as my MKIII, nor as fast in stock form.

09-10-2005, 06:40 PM	#1
quicklee Stock Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5	looking for some fast answers I'm seriously shopping for my next go-fast toy... what do I realistically need to plan on spending, if I'm to get into a MK4 Supra TT I'd be modding into the 500+ HP daily driver region...... if you had 1o-15 set aside for a project car and could have one of the following , which would it be, why -MK4 Supra TT -TT stealth/3000gt -rx7 -dsm -300z

09-11-2005, 02:26 PM	#4
quicklee Stock Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5	I've had DSM's, so I'm quite familiar with their downsides, you forgot to mention how scarey it is to take one past 120 or so, though... (it's like riding in a go cart... ) the 6 bolt swap is done because of the inherent CRANKWALK issues that plague the 7 bolt version. availability, btw IS an issue these days I had a TT Stealth, but didn't keep it long enough to mod it/drive it much You know, IF we compare apples to apples, -I wonder what a typical set of results would look like? here's a sample scenario: #A is a 1993 Supra TT -$25k for the car -$5k for mods _______________ $30k project... #B is a 1993 Stealth RT TT -$10K for the car -$20K for mods __________________ $30k project, with heavy emphasis on project The Sup. is now worth about $26,500.00 and is simpler to maintain (simple, manual trans, RWD sportscar) The Dodge is now worth $12-13k and requires a shitload of constant attention (NOT simple, highly modded, AWD/AWS/etc... ) 20k worth of mods in an AWD TT sportscar would undoubtedly be a BLAST! But, which car would YOU rather have? BTW, I wasn't really aware of Mazda's reliability issues. I generally build all my own engines/trannys/axles/whatever, but every 50k! that's ridiculous! back to the 300Z candidate, I've seen quite a few turbo z's for under 12k or so... back in the day, the Z's seemed to be toe to toe with the 3/S's ? anyone have experience modding these cars? now I do have another consideration, since we're talking mid 20's for the platform, that puts late 80's / early 90's Porsche Carrera 4's onto the roster. (AWD & TURBO, already has Big Reds and kickass suspension, EASY to wrench on, parts aren't that expensive... ) Last edited by quicklee; 09-11-2005 at 02:30 PM.

09-11-2005, 05:19 PM	#5
whitetiger777 Intake Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 35	Actulay I find my DSM rather fast. My friend who has the same mods as I do is pulling mid 11's, where as the one time a supra (NA) showed up it was pulling mid to low 14's. The funny thing about the crank walk issue is, for some reason if it hasn't delevoped it by 50000 miles it more than likely wont. Also it has the AWD option you are talking about. It blows somepeople away to see a 97 Eclipse jump of the line with no tire spin or hop. Also hitting your goal of 500 hp is very atainable in a DSM, and cheaper than all your other options. The RX-7 has the potential to be the fastest. It ways nearly nothing and has an amasizing power plant int it. I hear that some aironotical people are actualy putting the 14B in their airplanes. The problem with the car is that the US forced emission controll on it cause some problems for US cars the the Japanese cars don't have. Such as the cat sits right upnder the turbo causing more heat to the turbo and more heat under the hood. However, there is a kit that moves the cat under the pasenger seat. Also I hear that the plastic fans can melt due to engine heat so they must be replaced with metal ones. Also I hear of random engine fires in that car. I think it's due to the routing of the fuel line...I think. As fot the engine, it can be very strong. The engine takes less stress under boost due to the way the engine is desigened. Think about it in a piston car a piston is constanly being slamed down and pushed back up, which puts a lot of stress on the rods. A roatary engine is just pushed into a circle faster and faster. The problem with most people is they treat it like a piston engine, and it's not. You have to keep an eye on the oil levels because it burns oil like a two stroke, and some other things. The engines can last over 100000 miles if you know how to treat them. Last edited by whitetiger777; 09-11-2005 at 05:22 PM.

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09-10-2005, 10:35 PM	#2
whitetiger777 Intake Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 35	The dsm is rather simple to mod once yo have it. Make sure you've got the 4G63 engin in it though. The only thing with DSMs is the the balence shaft like to freeze. You have to replace it with a dummy one out of a miage if you want to make it a reliable daily driver. Also Depending on the year you might want to make a switch over to what is called a 6-bolt. It's just a stronger engine than the 7-bolt.

09-11-2005, 05:33 AM	#3
Poodles 12psi boost Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 348	sadly you won't find a MKIV for under $25k unless it's a scam...or wrecked. RX-7's are nice...though I have a personal bone to pick with them. RX-7's need a motor rebuild every 50k miles, it's not hard, someone can actually do it themselves pretty easy, it just takes the proper tools, time, and directions. 3000gt...nah, too much money involved in making them go fast. 300Z....yep, cool cars, I'd love to have one myself, and they aren't as expensive as a MKIV...about the same price range as a MKIII. Eclipses can be made fast...but the tranny and drivetrain will break and need service often. They's also slower than the rest of the cars on your list and have less displacement...you're starting with less...

09-11-2005, 05:31 PM	#6
quicklee Stock Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5	I've found BOTH my DSM's were fast! I'm just pointing out the fact that they get pretty squirrelly at high speed. I've never looked into RX's much, though... I have a basic understanding of the rotart, but have never considered it's relationship to forced induction situations. -Interesting I didn't mention, though, that I live in The Rocky's. Vail, CO to be exact. AWD is quite desirable here

09-12-2005, 10:52 PM	#7
Poodles 12psi boost Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 348	Rebuilding the rotory is suggested by the best tuners every 50k miles because it's NOT that hard to do. Pulling the engine in a rotory is easy, and it's TINY, one person can lift it easy. They are stupidly simple, but people are scared of them because it's not a conventional design. The bearings are the wear items, and if they fail, it's bad... But they're easy to replace, there are only 2 of them and the concentric, ect...very very simple, if you can work on a normal car well, rotory is easy. RX-7's have crap for torque, and only until the wind up do they actually start to fly, race one in a supra and you'll beat em off the line and all the way to 60 easy....then the stupid RX-7 starts pulling....HARD. FYI, the wankel engine (a rotory) was actually designed as a supercharger. Much like the turbo was designed as a supercharger, then they decided to put the fuel directly in and got the jet engine. The last bodystyle RX-7 is the best, light, great handling, best engine, and ALL where twin turboed. If you're looking for reliabilty, the Supra is by far the strongest of the bunch, and except for the clutch on the MKIV, the rest of the car will handle well over 2x the power (over 1000hp on the stock tranny and drivetrain is the norm it seems). Personally, it would be Surpa, RX-7, Z, 3000GT, Eclipse. My friend owned an eclipse turbo AWD...it was alright, but not nearly as nice as my MKIII, nor as fast in stock form.