5 speed transmission limit ?

[Supras4ever]

Hey guyz, new to this nice forum!!
I have some money saved and from what i will get from my parents i want to buy a supra! but because the twinturbo supra is so expensive i will buy the na-t 5 speed and make a conversion.
A) I wanted to ask how many HP can i reliable get from the 5 speed tranny ?? and if i can only get ~320 hp, can i make something to it(the tranny) to withstand around 450-500 hp ?
B) I saw the xs power kit on ebay > LINK <
Is the T61 turbo reliable or is it better to buy the kit + a better turbo separately ?
I plan on buying the kit + bigger injectors, another headgasket for compression, upgrade the fuel pump and mapecu.
But I can't do all this if the tranny will broke, so how many hp's is the limit ?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

Hey guyz, new to this nice forum!!
I have some money saved and from what i will get from my parents i want to buy a supra! but because the twinturbo supra is so expensive i will buy the na-t 5 speed and make a conversion.
A) I wanted to ask how many HP can i reliable get from the 5 speed tranny ?? and if i can only get ~320 hp, can i make something to it(the tranny) to withstand around 450-500 hp ?
B) I saw the xs power kit on ebay > LINK <
Is the T61 turbo reliable or is it better to buy the kit + a better turbo separately ?
I plan on buying the kit + bigger injectors, another headgasket for compression, upgrade the fuel pump and mapecu.
But I can't do all this if the tranny will broke, so how many hp's is the limit ?

If you really want a TT, save for it. All these mods, including upgrading the brakes, differential, ignition system, etc., etc., will end up costing you more than a TT.

The 5spd can hold about 400rwhp. A T61 is reliable. You should always get a complete kit (eg. fuel kit or turbo kit). Do not try to piecemeal it together with turbo then header then hoses/lines/pipes/couplings, or injectors separate from fuel pump separate from fuel rail, and then try to piecemeal it all together and make it work. It probably won't work properly, and you'll end up with weeks or months of headaches.

[Supras4ever]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

If you really want a TT, save for it. All these mods, including upgrading the brakes, differential, ignition system, etc., etc., will end up costing you more than a TT.

The 5spd can hold about 400rwhp. A T61 is reliable. You should always get a complete kit (eg. fuel kit or turbo kit). Do not try to piecemeal it together with turbo then header then hoses/lines/pipes/couplings, or injectors separate from fuel pump separate from fuel rail, and then try to piecemeal it all together and make it work. It probably won't work properly, and you'll end up with weeks or months of headaches.

Hy, thank you very much for answering.
I think you are kind of right, but the next affordable supra is the auto tt supra...i've driven auto cars before but nevers sport cars...isn't the supra kinda meh with the auto tranny ?And plus how many hp could it withstand?
The manual tt si expensive and after that i have to make it like apu for ~ 500 hp, right ? that means at least 3000$ ? with the fcd,ecc,downpipe,exhaust,cams etc ?
EDIT : Or will I be better buying the auto supra + t61 kit ?

Another set of questions and I won't be bothering you anymore.
If I build the na supra, let's say to around 500hp / ~ 430rwhp...because I still think is less expensive then the twin turbo(I know it's not the better choice) and is better for me because I can add the turbo after like 1 month of buying the Supra(so I don't need all the cash in an instance), how much time will the tranny resist if I don't drive really hard ? And I saw some rebuild kits on ebay like THIS, are these good ? Because if it can hold this amount of power I don't mind paying for rebuild once every ~15k because I won't be driving too often.
I know the brakes are better on the twinturbo, but are these necessary or just recommended ? What about the diff and ignition system ?
Thank you again for taking your time !!!!!!!
L.E: What are the exact differences between a TT and a NA beside : brakes, turbo, tranny...do na's have ABS or Airbags ?

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

Another set of questions and I won't be bothering you anymore.
If I build the na supra, let's say to around 500hp / ~ 430rwhp...because I still think is less expensive then the twin turbo(I know it's not the better choice) and is better for me because I can add the turbo after like 1 month of buying the Supra(so I don't need all the cash in an instance), how much time will the tranny resist if I don't drive really hard ? And I saw some rebuild kits on ebay like THIS, are these good ? Because if it can hold this amount of power I don't mind paying for rebuild once every ~15k because I won't be driving too often.
I know the brakes are better on the twinturbo, but are these necessary or just recommended ? What about the diff and ignition system ?
Thank you again for taking your time !!!!!!!
L.E: What are the exact differences between a TT and a NA beside : brakes, turbo, tranny...do na's have ABS or Airbags ?

What's up man? Welcome Glad to see you're so passionate about the best car in the world -SUPRA

Take a look at this technical article: www.mkiv.co.nz (check under technical section. A wealth of information on the Supra helped me a great deal. I'm also in the market for one - I desperately want/need it

I found great deals in it's homeland of Japan so, I'll be getting a JDM spec - oh yeah!

The w58 N/A tranny is capable of 260rwkw (I think that's 360HP) whilst the TT's auto A340E is capable of more at 350rwkw (+-470HP) and the king V160 6 speed TT tranny is capable of a whopping 500rwkw + (750HP)!!!

Definitely the one to go for if you're running that power. N/A is great and very affordable. However, the Twin Turbo is the undisputed king and ultimate Supra MKIV - if you could possibly afford one, please buy it. If you really cannot, set up a careful budget for your N/A Turbo conversion - if done well, the 2JZ-GE can produce massive power as well. It's just much more costly of course.

As for differences between the two, the article will have you covered there. Suspension wise, the TT came with Bilstein shocks, better ABS system, traction control as standard, spoiler control. Since you will be buying an export spec in the UK, the brakes are bigger than the N/A's. If you're buying from Japan, 93 - 95 Supras had the same size brakes for both TT and N/A. If you're pushing much more power than standard, upgrading them is a good idea with bigger rotors or at least slotted ones with better pads to match. If not, the Supra's original brakes (TT, especially) are very, very good in road or track scenarios.

Best of luck bro! Keep us posted...

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

...and the king V160 6 speed TT tranny is capable of a whopping 500rwkw + (750HP)!!!...

Actually the V160 has survived on the dyno at well beyond 1,500rwhp. It's an amazing piece of engineering.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...isn't the supra kinda meh with the auto tranny ?...

Um, no. Bone stock, the Mkiv TT auto is faster in the 1/4 mile than the 6spd, and more consistent too. Of course, it's more comfortable to drive - try kicking some butt from a stoplight while drinking a coffee in a 6spd. ...

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...The manual tt si expensive ...

Not at all,imho. Considering what you get, it's a great value.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...and after that i have to make it like apu for ~ 500 hp, right ? that means at least 3000$ ? with the fcd,ecc,downpipe,exhaust,cams etc ?
EDIT : Or will I be better buying the auto supra + t61 kit ?...

1) With an n/a you'll really struggle to get 500hp - I'm talking thousands and thousands of dollars and many, many hours of expert time. With an Mkiv TT in good shape, 500hp is very straightforward, and the upgrades are almost trivial. Of course, those upgrades aren't free, but their complexity and cost is far lower than trying to get an n/a to perform equivalently.

2) MOST importantly, a strongly performing car is about SO much more than horsepower alone. What's the good of horsepower if you just sit there and spin with skinny 16" tires, or can't corner when you get going, or can't stop at the end? The Mkiv TT gives you all of that in one package, and the n/a does not.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...If I build the na supra, let's say to around 500hp / ~ 430rwhp...because I still think is less expensive then the twin turbo...

You're VERY wrong about this, if you consider the entire set of upgrades to achieve your ultimate goal. No one wants a powerful car that just sits there and spins and can't go anywhere or stop.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...(I know it's not the better choice) and is better for me because I can add the turbo after like 1 month of buying the Supra(so I don't need all the cash in an instance)...

Like everything else in life, a TT is worth the wait. Work hard, save for a few more months, and get the TT if that's the kind of performance you want.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...how much time will the tranny resist if I don't drive really hard ?...

At 500hp, an n/a auto tranny could fail very quickly (weeks or months) especially if you put some good tires on the back. Again, if you run skinny high-mileage tires on 16" rims and just want to do smokeshows, perhaps the tranny will last a while longer.
The 5spd will probably hold 500hp for a good long while. The MKIII Supra with the 5spd has proven very reliable at that level.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...I know the brakes are better on the twinturbo, but are these necessary or just recommended ?...

Depends if you're planning to roadrace or not.

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...What about the diff and ignition system ?...

The oem TT diff is much stronger, but you may not need that if you never go beyond 500hp.
The oem n/a ignition system ...for lack of a better term... sucks donkey balls. You'll need to upgrade it to make a reliable 500hp+ with an n/a-T.

[[SupraLEGEND]]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Actually the V160 has survived on the dyno at well beyond 1,500rwhp. It's an amazing piece of engineering.

Amazing piece of engineering indeed. 1500rwhp is insane Was it tested on road tires or drag (slicks)? BTW, according to the article with the 750rwhp I stated above, if you don't run it on drag tires, it will last with even more power than that...

[Supras4ever]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Um, no. Bone stock, the Mkiv TT auto is faster in the 1/4 mile than the 6spd, and more consistent too. Of course, it's more comfortable to drive - try kicking some butt from a stoplight while drinking a coffee in a 6spd. ...
Not at all,imho. Considering what you get, it's a great value.

1) With an n/a you'll really struggle to get 500hp - I'm talking thousands and thousands of dollars and many, many hours of expert time. With an Mkiv TT in good shape, 500hp is very straightforward, and the upgrades are almost trivial. Of course, those upgrades aren't free, but their complexity and cost is far lower than trying to get an n/a to perform equivalently.

2) MOST importantly, a strongly performing car is about SO much more than horsepower alone. What's the good of horsepower if you just sit there and spin with skinny 16" tires, or can't corner when you get going, or can't stop at the end? The Mkiv TT gives you all of that in one package, and the n/a does not.You're VERY wrong about this, if you consider the entire set of upgrades to achieve your ultimate goal. No one wants a powerful car that just sits there and spins and can't go anywhere or stop.
Like everything else in life, a TT is worth the wait. Work hard, save for a few more months, and get the TT if that's the kind of performance you want.
At 500hp, an n/a auto tranny could fail very quickly (weeks or months) especially if you put some good tires on the back. Again, if you run skinny high-mileage tires on 16" rims and just want to do smokeshows, perhaps the tranny will last a while longer.
The 5spd will probably hold 500hp for a good long while. The MKIII Supra with the 5spd has proven very reliable at that level.
Depends if you're planning to roadrace or not.
The oem TT diff is much stronger, but you may not need that if you never go beyond 500hp.
The oem n/a ignition system ...for lack of a better term... sucks donkey balls. You'll need to upgrade it to make a reliable 500hp+ with an n/a-T.

Hey, firstly thank you again for taking your time just to answer me.
Secondly, I want to clarify some things about my future use of the Supra.
I'm a student in London, and this thing means 2 important things:
1) I will only drive the Supra on weekends(+ I don't intend to drag race it for the moment or road race it too much) or MAYBE 1 time during the week if really needed as going through London is way better/convenient with underground/overground/buses
2) For the reason above, I don't have that kind of money to pay for gas every day and that's why TT manuals + upgrading are kind of over my buget for now(until I finish uni and get a job) because as I said before, I only have like 3k $ asside + around 3k $ from my parents; so the only affordable supra is the n/a or maybe if I find a cheap high mileage auto tt(but that means keeping it stock). Saving like 200$ per month for tt means I have to wait years, so i'm better moneywise + learning wise with n/a made turbo until I finish uni, get a job and afford a tt.
I don't even think of buying the n/a auto, all the time I was referring to the 5spd n/a.
You said it will hold 500 hp, well I don't intend on going higher than that because for my first Supra, my first 200hp + car and my first right hand drive car I think it's enough
And why will I struggle so hard to achieve 500hp? You make it sound almost impossible . From what I've read in the last week over and over again, the n/a with a turbo kit(intercooler, wastegate, bov etc) will make over 300 HP and will need the 1.3mm gasket to lower compression, map ecu, upgraded fuel system(fuel pump + 550 injectors) and ebc(to raise a little the boost) to make 500 hp. What I am missing ?
Again, I REALLY KNOW why the TT is way better than the n/a(even with the turbo) but in my situation, as I can't afford the TT soon but can afford upgrading the brakes on the n/a after ~ 2 months, and then something else, piece by piece, I believe this is the best solution.
Feel free to come up with other solutions/ideas!

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by [SupraLEGEND]

Amazing piece of engineering indeed. 1500rwhp is insane Was it tested on road tires or drag (slicks)? BTW, according to the article with the 750rwhp I stated above, if you don't run it on drag tires, it will last with even more power than that...

On a dyno, with drag slicks.

No V160 has ever failed at anywhere near only 750rwhp, except the 2nd gear synchro from abusive power shifting.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by Supras4ever

...why will I struggle so hard to achieve 500hp? You make it sound almost impossible . From what I've read in the last week over and over again, the n/a with a turbo kit(intercooler, wastegate, bov etc) will make over 300 HP and will need the 1.3mm gasket to lower compression, map ecu, upgraded fuel system(fuel pump + 550 injectors) and ebc(to raise a little the boost) to make 500 hp. What I am missing ?...

You're not missing much other than perhaps the extensiveness of the modifications that you listed. You'll need to remove the exhast manifold and the head...work inside the gas tank, remove and replace the fuel rail, and put a turbo and intercooler into an engine bay that wasn't designed to have one. Oh, most likely you'll run into ignition issues, and you'll have to upgrade that too. Compare this to the Mkiv TT where all you need to achieve 500hp is a downpipe, a ten cent hose clamp, and a free fuel cut modification. Back to your mods though, note that a thicker head gasket in a 2jz-ge does not produce a combustion chamber with the equivalent shape and horsepower potential to a 2jz-gte. You also still may run into detonation issues at lower boost levels, since 1.3mm isn't a very thick head gasket at all. HKS made/makes a 2mm head gasket which may work better.

Here's an example of a complete na-T kit:
http://www.boostlogic.com/catalog/p1...duct_info.html
...and for $5250 you do get your 500hp, but on a car with substandard brakes and suspension. Based on your situation, I still say wait and get a TT. Doing all of these mods to turn an n/a into an na-T is something a student probably doesn't have time for. For what it's worth, I say take more courses and get your degree done sooner, or get two part time jobs and save up for a TT quicker. *shrug* Either way you go, I do wish you the best.