Overpressure in radiator system + ABS and Tracs problems + odometer

Tedor · 08-08-2012, 11:35 PM

Hi!

I dont know if I put this thread right but I give it a try. Im new to supras, never owned one but thats about to change. Superpumped about that!

I recently came across a 1998 TT Targa LHD 6 speed with a good price that Im looking to buy but the problems are that there is a overpressure in the radiator system and the owner suspects a blown headgasket, no radiator fluid in the oil he says. If it is a blown headgasket then I not se any problems in fixing that. But it could be a few more stuff, like how big are the chanses that maybe the head or even the block got a crack in it?

The car got 62K or 100K miles on it if I understood the owner correct. Is it easy to turn the odometer back? The car is from US but have been driven in England before coming to Sweden. The speedometer shows KM/H and the odometer should show Miles?
And what I know the car only have a FMIC and 3" exhaust besides that it is stock.

The other problem is that the Tracs and ABS lamps do lit. I dont care about the Tracs so maybe I just disconnect that but what I understand they have the same databox. He also said to me that the ABS light beacuse there are no sensor at the hub so that should make sens but why would you want to remove a ABS sensor?

He dont know to much about the car but I will se if I can get in contact with the previous owner tommorow. Sorry for my english, being from Sweden makes that my second language. Im a special auto mechanic so
Im not afraid of getting my hands dirty.

Thank you!

Best Regards Fredrik / Sweden

Travis89Turbo · 08-09-2012, 02:19 PM

It is not possible at all to run back the odometer. I really hope that your are not wanting to run it back, not only can it not be done but is illegal. Mileage is important to help show the cars health and use of all components including suspension not just the engine. 60 or 100k?? That is a big difference.

It is unlikely that the head will crack but could warp from overheating but nothin a little machine work and a thicker headgasket wouldn't fix. The block will not crack it is built from a really strong Cast Iron.

There are still a few things that could cause the car to pressurize the radiator.

Tedor · 08-09-2012, 09:16 PM

Im not going to turn the odometer back, just wanted to make sure it cant be done so I dont have to worry about that. Okey thats good. If it have 100k Miles on it maybe thats not bad either, I have heard these engines can go for a long time. As soon as I get the VIN I will do a carfax check on it.

Is there any supra that has a odometer in KM/H? He thinks beacuse the speedometer is in KM/H that the odometer is that to, but I think they just have put a plate over the speedometer that shows KM/h.

pwpanas · 08-10-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis89Turbo

It is not possible at all to run back the odometer. I really hope that your are not wanting to run it back, not only can it not be done but is illegal. Mileage is important to help show the cars health and use of all components including suspension not just the engine. 60 or 100k?? That is a big difference.

It is unlikely that the head will crack but could warp from overheating but nothin a little machine work and a thicker headgasket wouldn't fix. The block will not crack it is built from a really strong Cast Iron.

There are still a few things that could cause the car to pressurize the radiator.

It's not easy to run back the odometer I agree - HOWEVER it is possible to disable the odometer for a time, thereby accumulating zero mileage while driving. One could also swap in another odometer from a different car. Clearly this would be illegal, but it is possible nonetheless.

Although an aluminum head won't crack, detonation can blow chips of metal out of it... I've seen this damage first hand, and know for certain that it is not only possible - it is likely to happen if you run too much boost with too little octane. Yes, this could cause combustion pressure to leak into the cooling system.

Also, it's quite unlikely that the aluminum head is warped unless something really stupid was done (eg. run the engine without any coolant). However, I strongly disagree that machining and a thicker headgasket would fix a warped head. Try this and the cams won't spin in the journals.

pwpanas · 08-10-2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

Im not going to turn the odometer back, just wanted to make sure it cant be done so I dont have to worry about that. Okey thats good. If it have 100k Miles on it maybe thats not bad either, I have heard these engines can go for a long time. As soon as I get the VIN I will do a carfax check on it.

Is there any supra that has a odometer in KM/H? He thinks beacuse the speedometer is in KM/H that the odometer is that to, but I think they just have put a plate over the speedometer that shows KM/h.

These engines can only "go for a long time" if they are properly maintained and always run sufficient octane to match the boost level.

Yes, Japanese-spec Mkiv Supra Turbos show km and km/h not miles or mph. Also, TRD makes a 320km/h speedometer with no mph scale on it at all.

pwpanas · 08-10-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

...I recently came across a 1998 TT Targa LHD 6 speed with a good price that Im looking to buy but the problems are that there is a overpressure in the radiator system and the owner suspects a blown headgasket, no radiator fluid in the oil he says. If it is a blown headgasket then I not se any problems in fixing that. But it could be a few more stuff, like how big are the chanses that maybe the head or even the block got a crack in it?...

The Mkiv Supra Turbo (2jz-gte) never had any issue with blowing headgaskets, so this is very unlikely to be the issue.
You need to verify the no coolant in the oil thing yourself, after some very hard driving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

...The car got 62K or 100K miles on it if I understood the owner correct. Is it easy to turn the odometer back? The car is from US but have been driven in England before coming to Sweden. The speedometer shows KM/H and the odometer should show Miles?
And what I know the car only have a FMIC and 3" exhaust besides that it is stock....

If the car has an FMIC, most likely the boost was raised using aftermarket parts. You need to have a compression test done on the engine - preferrably a leakdown test too if you can arrange it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

...The other problem is that the Tracs and ABS lamps do lit. I dont care about the Tracs so maybe I just disconnect that but what I understand they have the same databox. He also said to me that the ABS light beacuse there are no sensor at the hub so that should make sens but why would you want to remove a ABS sensor?...

His answer don't make sense. The computers store the codes, and the trouble codes need to be diagnosed (not ignored).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

...He dont know to much about the car but I will se if I can get in contact with the previous owner tommorow. Sorry for my english, being from Sweden makes that my second language. Im a special auto mechanic so
Im not afraid of getting my hands dirty.

No worries - glad to help. Keep the questions coming!

Tedor · 08-10-2012, 12:27 AM

Big thanks from sweden to you pwpanas!

It's a Euro Spec so the odometer most likely records Miles. Beacuse it only has 3" exhaust and FMIC I dont think they have ran too high boost.

The thing is that I have not brought the car yet, haven't seen it IRL yet. He is 250 Miles from me. Ofcourse I will do a Compresseion and Coolant system pressure test if he agrees. Both me and my dad are mechanics so if there is work to do there is no problem, parts costs a lot. We acctualy have acces to a pretty special tool when it comes to checking head gaskets. Ofcourse they could have changed the oil and claim there where no coolant in it.

You said the GTE motor dont have problem blowing headgaskets, lets say it's blown could I expect more that the car have 100K than 62K on the odometer and that it has been driven hard or without coolant? If so I will rip the whole motor apart and do a overhaul.

My thought about the ABS is that the car have been crashed and they replaced the hub with one without ABS, unfortunaly the seller says he dont know much about the car at all.

/Fredrik

pwpanas · 08-10-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

...You said the GTE motor dont have problem blowing headgaskets, lets say it's blown could I expect more that the car have 100K than 62K on the odometer and that it has been driven hard or without coolant? If so I will rip the whole motor apart and do a overhaul.

My thought about the ABS is that the car have been crashed and they replaced the hub with one without ABS, unfortunaly the seller says he dont know much about the car at all.

/Fredrik

Glad to help, Fredrik.

What you should expect is that...given the FMIC modification...it may have been run on high boost without high octane fuel - this damages the ring lands and chips away at the metal in the cylinder head, which in turn negatively affects compression (and blow-by). If it fails the compression/leakdown tests, you're definitely looking at a new shortblock (to me, don't try to rebuild it - the 2jz-gte tolerances are far too precise to measure with plastigage). Also, don't think about aftermarket (forged) internals to solve any problems - the oem internals are good to 1000hp as long as you run enough octane in the fuel. Insufficient octane however will detonate and destroy any forged internals just as easily as it will destroy the oem internals.

The ABS issue likely does not have to do with an accident. More likely it has to do with poor maintenance. Just check the codes and troubleshoot accordingly.

Tedor · 08-10-2012, 04:52 PM

Thanks again!

What is the max boost that the stock Euro spec turbos can handle? Trying to figure out boost vs fuel octane. In sweden we have 95 and 98 octane, unfortunaly the car haven't been driven here, only 5 miles if the seller is correct. Not sure what fuel octane England are using.

pwpanas · 08-10-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedor

Thanks again!

What is the max boost that the stock Euro spec turbos can handle? Trying to figure out boost vs fuel octane. In sweden we have 95 and 98 octane, unfortunaly the car haven't been driven here, only 5 miles if the seller is correct. Not sure what fuel octane England are using.

No idea. However:
1) Motor octane is MUCH more important than research octane. You have to find out how the octane of your local "98 octane" fuel is measured, and it's *motor* octane number.
2) With a US-spec Mkiv Supra Turbo, the max safe boost with local 93 octane fuel (calculated at ((R+M)/2)) is about 16psi. Anything more than that gradually destroys the engine (not the turbos).
3) With the US-spec Mkiv Supra Turbo, the oem boost level is about 11.5psi. This of course is very safe with the recommended 93 octane 'premium' fuel.
4) The turbos won't die quickly unless you're running in excess of 28psi. HOWEVER at anything over the stock boost levels, their longevity will be impacted. The more you push them past the oem boost levels, the quicker they'll fail.
5) Again, (I can't stress this enough) the engine is what gets damaged FAST with high boost on pump gas - not the turbos. If you're going to run high boost, use race fuel or methanol injection.

08-08-2012, 11:35 PM	#1
Tedor Stock Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 11	Overpressure in radiator system + ABS and Tracs problems + odometer Hi! I dont know if I put this thread right but I give it a try. Im new to supras, never owned one but thats about to change. Superpumped about that! I recently came across a 1998 TT Targa LHD 6 speed with a good price that Im looking to buy but the problems are that there is a overpressure in the radiator system and the owner suspects a blown headgasket, no radiator fluid in the oil he says. If it is a blown headgasket then I not se any problems in fixing that. But it could be a few more stuff, like how big are the chanses that maybe the head or even the block got a crack in it? The car got 62K or 100K miles on it if I understood the owner correct. Is it easy to turn the odometer back? The car is from US but have been driven in England before coming to Sweden. The speedometer shows KM/H and the odometer should show Miles? And what I know the car only have a FMIC and 3" exhaust besides that it is stock. The other problem is that the Tracs and ABS lamps do lit. I dont care about the Tracs so maybe I just disconnect that but what I understand they have the same databox. He also said to me that the ABS light beacuse there are no sensor at the hub so that should make sens but why would you want to remove a ABS sensor? He dont know to much about the car but I will se if I can get in contact with the previous owner tommorow. Sorry for my english, being from Sweden makes that my second language. Im a special auto mechanic so Im not afraid of getting my hands dirty. Thank you! Best Regards Fredrik / Sweden

08-09-2012, 02:19 PM	#2
Travis89Turbo 12psi boost Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Utah Posts: 332	It is not possible at all to run back the odometer. I really hope that your are not wanting to run it back, not only can it not be done but is illegal. Mileage is important to help show the cars health and use of all components including suspension not just the engine. 60 or 100k?? That is a big difference. It is unlikely that the head will crack but could warp from overheating but nothin a little machine work and a thicker headgasket wouldn't fix. The block will not crack it is built from a really strong Cast Iron. There are still a few things that could cause the car to pressurize the radiator. __________________ 1995 Toyota Supra SE 71k miles. Master power T70 stock 2jzge 1989 Toyota Supra. 1jzgte swap 5 speed of course.. Driftmotion 60-1 single turbo kit. Cxracing FMIC. 2jz 550cc injectors... soon to come..... EMS Stinger. BC 264 cams 680cc injectors Spec stage 4 clutch and A LOT of boost!------SOLD 1999 Ford F350 diesel 2004 Jaguar XJR Supercharged If it hasnt broke you haven pushed it hard enough!!

08-09-2012, 09:16 PM	#3
Tedor Stock Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 11	Im not going to turn the odometer back, just wanted to make sure it cant be done so I dont have to worry about that. Okey thats good. If it have 100k Miles on it maybe thats not bad either, I have heard these engines can go for a long time. As soon as I get the VIN I will do a carfax check on it. Is there any supra that has a odometer in KM/H? He thinks beacuse the speedometer is in KM/H that the odometer is that to, but I think they just have put a plate over the speedometer that shows KM/h.

08-10-2012, 12:27 AM	#7
Tedor Stock Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 11	Big thanks from sweden to you pwpanas! It's a Euro Spec so the odometer most likely records Miles. Beacuse it only has 3" exhaust and FMIC I dont think they have ran too high boost. The thing is that I have not brought the car yet, haven't seen it IRL yet. He is 250 Miles from me. Ofcourse I will do a Compresseion and Coolant system pressure test if he agrees. Both me and my dad are mechanics so if there is work to do there is no problem, parts costs a lot. We acctualy have acces to a pretty special tool when it comes to checking head gaskets. Ofcourse they could have changed the oil and claim there where no coolant in it. You said the GTE motor dont have problem blowing headgaskets, lets say it's blown could I expect more that the car have 100K than 62K on the odometer and that it has been driven hard or without coolant? If so I will rip the whole motor apart and do a overhaul. My thought about the ABS is that the car have been crashed and they replaced the hub with one without ABS, unfortunaly the seller says he dont know much about the car at all. /Fredrik

08-10-2012, 04:52 PM	#9
Tedor Stock Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 11	Thanks again! What is the max boost that the stock Euro spec turbos can handle? Trying to figure out boost vs fuel octane. In sweden we have 95 and 98 octane, unfortunaly the car haven't been driven here, only 5 miles if the seller is correct. Not sure what fuel octane England are using.