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New 1994 Twin Turbo Auto Trans, So Where to Start
I am looking for threads or advice from knowledgable members of this form. I just purchased 1994 twin turbo from it's original owner. I want to know what mods I should start with.
When it comes to projects this is not my first rodeo. There were some things I knew from the get go(due to my past project experiences). First, I found a car that was completely stock and has always been serviced from a reputable toyota dealer. I have the complete history of the car and have confirmed it to be correct. Personally I never have enjoyed changing other peoples' personal project choices. Second, I know the kind of role this car will play for me. A weekend driver! It should turn heads and make people go WOW sitting still or blazing by!! Third, I know the mechanical role I want the car to produce.(the list is below) 1. As much WHP that can be produced on Supreme Fuel 2. As much WHP that is still useable and still dependable 3. Safe, dependable, fun, a throw your head back "Kick A Ride"!!!! 4. All the mods that make #1,#2, and #3 possible So the problem is what is the mod list and the correct order of that mod list. I realize it will include systems that may not be related directly to the engine performance(breaks, suspension,electrical systems,etc) Don't think about cost. I am not interested in money or cost here. I am interested in what works. In my experience people who chose a cheeper solution (because they are concerned about cost) are never truly satisfied nor does the solution work in the long run. That is not me. I don't want people to advise me on what they have read or think would be cool. What they have seen in a mag or at a car show. I want to know from those who own, have done, and have learned what works... Please! You are the best source!!!!! You knowledge is the most valuable. If you want to know anything about 1st Gen.Toyota 4runners, I am a guy that knows. I own 5 of them and have owned a total of 8. Built every one from the ground up. If you want to know about Cessna 172's 182's 210's 310's or Vans RV7, 8., 7A I am that guy also. I have owned, maintained and built many and still do. We all have our knowledge in different areas. I don't say this to brag but to give an example of who I want to answer this thread. I realize there will be differing opinions and options. That is ok. I expect them and I am looking for them. I am capable of figuring out the one's that will work for me as long as people describe what they did, why they did it and what the results were. If I have missed anything please ask. If you know of a thread that worked for you, please refer me to it. Thank you in advance for your knowledge, information, and experience. Alan |
Pwpanas is the guy to ask he has help me alot with my build.
My thread is help making power 94tt. Hopefully my car wil be dyno'd tomorrow after building 1 year. |
Thanks! I read you thread. Good luck on the dyno. Hopefully he will see my thread and answer!
Couple of day's without a post from anyone. Maybe I got of on the wrong foot with everyone here. Sorry if I did that. I just have dropped into a new area of projects and I thought I could short cut and get to the point. Maybe my words were chosen poorly. I just want a little help of where to start with this car. Thanks |
The forum has been very still dont know why.Just wait a bit.
What sort off power are you looking at. Start with a compression test |
Not Sure
I am not sure. This car is completely stock with 113k miles on it with excellent maintenance history. It pulls pretty hard from 3.5 to 6.5 rpm. I am not sure where the stock power band is. I plan to take it out today and figure that out. I will take compressions tonight. I am not sure how to do a leak down test on it though. I saw a link on another thread but i couldn't find it. I know how to do that on my airplanes. and I have the calibrated gage for that. We us 80 psi which would be low for a car I am almost sure. Leak down is how you test compression for air worthiness on airplanes.
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As I linked to above, you can either start with “BPU”, which is a good, proven set of mods. You can spend a lot of time tweaking BPU to get incremental performance improvements, but your next jump won’t be till you dump the oem twins and the oem fuel injectors and install a mid-size (~67mm) single turbo. However, there’s a big jump in cost with this step because you need a fuel system, a turbo kit, and some electronics to control it all. I can get you pointed in the right direction if you post up your thoughts on not using “Supreme Fuel” (whatever that is), and whether you think you want to make the jump straight to single turbo or if you want to try out BPU. P.S. Agreed – I hope you did a compression test on that Supra you bought. Here's a vid on doing a leakdown test (sorry about the ad): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgrfT0LFMhc (it gets interesting at about the 7 minute mark for compression test, and about 13 minute mark for the leakdown) Here's another vid (a bit more concise): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSiT...feature=fvwrel |
Thank You!
Supreme Fuel in my world is pump gas/91 octane. Thank you for the leak down videos. Did the compressions last night all between 172 and 174. That seems pretty good to me. I am under the impression 185 is the stock box number. Timing belt was just changed 6k earlier(good maintenance records on this baby).
I am shooting for the 5 to 6 hundred + in WHP. I was thinking about buying a new stand alone programable ECU with more than on map. Put the bolt on parts needed to run race fuel or 91 octane with 2 different maps. I assumed that means the following: Complete New Fuel System(pump/injectors/etc) New Single turbo/manifold/etc New exhaust down piping and all, shoot for 4"(lose the cats) Intercooler with all piping(750 to 1000 WHP range maybe) New radiator Bigger Brakes Rebuild the stock auto trans Hold off on cams, valve springs, guides, and other internals for now. Shoot for low 500 with the 91 octane and high 5 to low 6+ with race fuel and more boost in the map. And if I get addicted to this thing and want more.... then all I should have to do is get a bigger turbo and buy a race fuel farm(hehehe) I have done meth injection before and still do on my 4Runner(I dropped in a 3rz with a small turbo). Not that happy with that system to tell you the truth. I fill that it is kind of a mickey mouse bandaid in opinion(not that I really have your experience in this arena) it's just more of a gut feeling. Borg Warner has a new turbo out(within in the last year and a half). I think it has a titanium fan and is suppose to spool up quicker. I am reading and hearing roomers that by 3k it has strong pull up to 5.5K Still looking into the truth about that turbo. So that is my starting point. I still want to use this car to drive around town when I want too. I realize that I may have to sacrifice something but I want an all around street car with some get up and freaking go! What do you think. How far off the mark am I here? |
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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a reply. Thanks for the time!!!!!!!:crazy:If I wasn't able to laugh at myself before our meeting... you have sure gave me a crash course. I am a type a personalty(go figure).
I know myself pretty well and one thing I am sure of is the kind of horse power that I will want in the end will not be the kind I can control at the beginning. But I am a quick study. That is why I jump so far ahead. There are some componets that would be foolish not to install from the get go. A perfect example is he ECU. Stand alone systems are more dependable then adding a chip or other programs in my opinion. Plus you can't run 2 maps on a stock system. The fuel system is another perfect example. I want to have a machine that will run on 91 to 93 octane and higher octane race fuel (116 octane). The only way I know that can be done is with two different maps on one ECU. That is why I recommended two boost levels also. Map One lower octane, lower boost. Map Two high octane, higher boost The reason I am being vague about WHP power is I do not know what the number is due to the two fuel octane choices. I am grateful for your opinions, experience, time, and knowledge. I have asked for it and I hope I am showing you the respect you deserve(due to my request). The other thing that from my first email that may have been forgotten is one of my qualifiers, time is of the essence. I am not the typical project builder in this area. My time is what is valuable. That is why you see me push and plan fast. I have a limited amount of time research and to invest in my toy. I myself will not be building this toy alone. So if you need more specifics, please give me the list one more time and I will do my best to follow your lead. Thanks for your patients. :D |
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Also note that an aftermarket ecu requires a map – likely configured by someone other than a certified automotive engineer - and that map (or maps) most likely will not have even 1% of the time that Toyota put into developing the stock map. Please trust me that this is a major consideration for not only peak-horsepower tuning, but regular drivability. In fact, peak horsepower tuning is almost a trivial job compared to getting cold-starting, tip-in, and all-around drivability just right in various temperatures, humidity levels, and altitudes. In short, when you make the move away from the oem ecu, it is a *major* step. We can get you 600rwhp with absolutely no issue at all, with the oem ecu. Please consider this before we make the final call on dumping it. Quote:
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Aside: The largest ‘record’ I’m aware of is nearly 700rwhp on 93 octane pump gas, with an absolute monster turbo...but it didn’t make barely any boost at all until about 6800 rpm, and then it went vertical. In the end, nitrous was used to spool this turbo, and it was rarely run on pump gas. When boost ‘goes vertical’, precisely controlling it is very difficult (especially if spooled by nitrous!)…and engine damage occurs if boost limits are exceeded for a given octane of fuel (yes, even with ‘built’ internals).I appreciate your tight timeframe, your relatively unrestricted budget, and your high expectations. I sincerely believe we can meet all of them. If you’ll allow me, I can keep you from wasting your time (and money). Safety and an overall balanced design will be part of it too. Also believe me when I say, there really is no practical limit to the amount of horsepower you can run on the new C16 race fuel (or the VP Import 120+ octane before it), in a properly modified Mkiv Supra Turbo. This can be a reliable (albeit not necessarily comfortable-to-drive) ride at pretty much any number you care to put down. Try me. Specifics needed: - Your max rwhp number. (Again, we can turn down the boost limit at first, without changing anything else). - Your application (drag racing or roadracing or drifting or autocross or top speed etc.). - Will this car be 'shown', or will it be a 'sleeper'. - Is E85 available nearby? Would you consider running it full-time? http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa....html#LasVegas - How much do you care about it being comfortable to daily drive. Eg. What if the auto tranny has very harsh shifts? What if it doesn't cold-start very well? What if it hesitates a bit on tip-in. What if the torque converter is high-stall and the engine revs and then you get a small bit of wheel spin when leaving most/all traffic lights (especially up-hill)? What if it runs well in the summer but doesn't run well in the winter, or vice-versa? These are all just examples - in general, I need to know how much we can turn this into more of a race car and less of a lexus-like Grand Touring sportscar...and still have you extremely pleased with the results. |
More Info
Ok Let me give you some more information. Thanks for the link to E85 locations. If the car was going to stay in Las Vegas, that might be an option. The car will spend most of it's time in SoCal, so that is an issue according to the link you provided.
I agree that I will be disappointed with the performance of 91 octane once we try it. I am positive you are correct that I will want to run race full all the time after I put in in that tank. But we are looking at $9 plus dollars a gallon. I want this to be able to have daily drivability on the street. Yes I want it to be some what of a sleeper. It is red and will be blacked out with Ridox side skirts, Trial rear, HKS replica carbon lip, 98 front bumper, 98 lights,(front and Back), painted carbon oem hood, painted carbon hatch, all lexan(tented) windows and no wing. I will shave approximately 340 plus lbs with some other mods. Drag racing is the main focus but I will have an adjustable suspension so I could take the occasional winding road. I want to surprise the un aware muscle and exotic guys. Harmless fun. This car in my mind is perfect for this. I understand we don't have to build up the tranny but if I am going to 650 plus WHP with a big turbos and race fuel, changing the torque converter stall speed sounds likely. I am very very hesitant about water injection. I have had serveral bad experiences with the two top of the line systems. Fried one 3RZ due to a failure(with all the redundant safety features). E85 may be another option on another map(you are thinking there he goes again!!!:D dumping the stock ecu and making maps) There is no access to E85 where I'm at in the in SoCal (according to the link). So to answer the questions: -Max WHP 750 will probably make me happiest but I would settle for 650 -Drag with the occasional winding road cruse -Somewhat of a sleeper -I could possibly make E85 a reality with a little home work -Harsh shifter no biggie -I want to try to limit the wheel spin as much as possible(thinking sleeper) -Cold start is no biggie -More of a race car is acceptable for me but I still want it to be sleepy if possible:cool: |
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- An endless supply of >110 octane race fuel - for use whenever you're boosting. The ideal fuel is the new C16 from VP Racing Fuels. - 72mm 'racing-spec' turbo kit - Full 1000hp fuel system, with lines, pumps and FPR capable of E85 if you change your mind. - Maintenance items: timing belt, coilpacks, harmonic dampener, diff fluid - Wider rims & tires - HKS HiperMax III coilovers - HKS 272 Cams, ported head, 1mm oversize valves, dual valve springs, L19 studs - TH400 or 4L80E built transmission - AEM ECU - Amuse R100 titanium exhaust - GReddy 4-row FMIC - TRD Diff - Roll cage Please let me know if you have any additional questions. |
Nice list will make decent power
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