New 1994 Twin Turbo Auto Trans, So Where to Start

[consol1]

I am looking for threads or advice from knowledgable members of this form. I just purchased 1994 twin turbo from it's original owner. I want to know what mods I should start with.

When it comes to projects this is not my first rodeo. There were some things I knew from the get go(due to my past project experiences).

First, I found a car that was completely stock and has always been serviced from a reputable toyota dealer. I have the complete history of the car and have confirmed it to be correct. Personally I never have enjoyed changing other peoples' personal project choices.

Second, I know the kind of role this car will play for me. A weekend driver! It should turn heads and make people go WOW sitting still or blazing by!!

Third, I know the mechanical role I want the car to produce.(the list is below)
1. As much WHP that can be produced on Supreme Fuel
2. As much WHP that is still useable and still dependable
3. Safe, dependable, fun, a throw your head back "Kick A Ride"!!!!
4. All the mods that make #1,#2, and #3 possible

So the problem is what is the mod list and the correct order of that mod list. I realize it will include systems that may not be related directly to the engine performance(breaks, suspension,electrical systems,etc)

Don't think about cost. I am not interested in money or cost here. I am interested in what works. In my experience people who chose a cheeper solution (because they are concerned about cost) are never truly satisfied nor does the solution work in the long run. That is not me.

I don't want people to advise me on what they have read or think would be cool. What they have seen in a mag or at a car show. I want to know from those who own, have done, and have learned what works... Please! You are the best source!!!!! You knowledge is the most valuable.

If you want to know anything about 1st Gen.Toyota 4runners, I am a guy that knows. I own 5 of them and have owned a total of 8. Built every one from the ground up. If you want to know about Cessna 172's 182's 210's 310's or Vans RV7, 8., 7A I am that guy also. I have owned, maintained and built many and still do. We all have our knowledge in different areas. I don't say this to brag but to give an example of who I want to answer this thread.

I realize there will be differing opinions and options. That is ok. I expect them and I am looking for them. I am capable of figuring out the one's that will work for me as long as people describe what they did, why they did it and what the results were.

If I have missed anything please ask. If you know of a thread that worked for you, please refer me to it. Thank you in advance for your knowledge, information, and experience.

Alan

[warmkop]

Pwpanas is the guy to ask he has help me alot with my build.
My thread is help making power 94tt.
Hopefully my car wil be dyno'd tomorrow after building 1 year.

[consol1]

Thanks! I read you thread. Good luck on the dyno. Hopefully he will see my thread and answer!

Couple of day's without a post from anyone. Maybe I got of on the wrong foot with everyone here. Sorry if I did that. I just have dropped into a new area of projects and I thought I could short cut and get to the point. Maybe my words were chosen poorly. I just want a little help of where to start with this car. Thanks

[warmkop]

The forum has been very still dont know why.Just wait a bit.
What sort off power are you looking at.
Start with a compression test

[consol1]

I am not sure. This car is completely stock with 113k miles on it with excellent maintenance history. It pulls pretty hard from 3.5 to 6.5 rpm. I am not sure where the stock power band is. I plan to take it out today and figure that out. I will take compressions tonight. I am not sure how to do a leak down test on it though. I saw a link on another thread but i couldn't find it. I know how to do that on my airplanes. and I have the calibrated gage for that. We us 80 psi which would be low for a car I am almost sure. Leak down is how you test compression for air worthiness on airplanes.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by consol1

Couple of day's without a post from anyone. Maybe I got of on the wrong foot with everyone here. Sorry if I did that. I just have dropped into a new area of projects and I thought I could short cut and get to the point. Maybe my words were chosen poorly. I just want a little help of where to start with this car. Thanks

No sorry I've been away on business. I'll post an answer tonight.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by consol1

I am looking for threads or advice from knowledgeable members of this form. I just purchased 1994 twin turbo from it's original owner. I want to know what mods I should start with…

http://mkiv.com/93-98-twin-turbo-faqs-2/#bpu1

Originally Posted by consol1

1. As much WHP that can be produced on Supreme Fuel…

What is “Supreme Fuel”? If that’s pump gas, then you need to reconsider this criteria OR forget the idea of getting a Supra. A Supra only *really* performs with high boost from the turbo(s)…and high boost on pump gas detonates. You need to consider methanol injection or race fuel if you want to experience the true performance capabilities of a 3L turbocharged engine.

Originally Posted by consol1

…2. As much WHP that is still useable and still dependable…

Sorry that’s a catch-22. The more hp you squeeze out of it, the less reliable it will be. You have to decide on your pain threshold and what you’re willing to give up for more hp.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Don't think about cost. I am not interested in money or cost here. I am interested in what works. In my experience people who chose a cheeper solution (because they are concerned about cost) are never truly satisfied nor does the solution work in the long run. That is not me.

Ok.

Originally Posted by consol1

I don't want people to advise me on what they have read or think would be cool. What they have seen in a mag or at a car show. I want to know from those who own, have done, and have learned what works... Please! You are the best source!!!!! You knowledge is the most valuable. …

I’m the owner of a heavily modified Toyota Supra Turbo and I’ve done (and re-done, and re-done) most of the work on it myself.

As I linked to above, you can either start with “BPU”, which is a good, proven set of mods. You can spend a lot of time tweaking BPU to get incremental performance improvements, but your next jump won’t be till you dump the oem twins and the oem fuel injectors and install a mid-size (~67mm) single turbo. However, there’s a big jump in cost with this step because you need a fuel system, a turbo kit, and some electronics to control it all. I can get you pointed in the right direction if you post up your thoughts on not using “Supreme Fuel” (whatever that is), and whether you think you want to make the jump straight to single turbo or if you want to try out BPU.

P.S. Agreed – I hope you did a compression test on that Supra you bought.

Here's a vid on doing a leakdown test (sorry about the ad):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgrfT0LFMhc
(it gets interesting at about the 7 minute mark for compression test, and about 13 minute mark for the leakdown)

Here's another vid (a bit more concise):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSiT...feature=fvwrel

[consol1]

Supreme Fuel in my world is pump gas/91 octane. Thank you for the leak down videos. Did the compressions last night all between 172 and 174. That seems pretty good to me. I am under the impression 185 is the stock box number. Timing belt was just changed 6k earlier(good maintenance records on this baby).

I am shooting for the 5 to 6 hundred + in WHP. I was thinking about buying a new stand alone programable ECU with more than on map. Put the bolt on parts needed to run race fuel or 91 octane with 2 different maps.

I assumed that means the following:
Complete New Fuel System(pump/injectors/etc)
New Single turbo/manifold/etc
New exhaust down piping and all, shoot for 4"(lose the cats)
Intercooler with all piping(750 to 1000 WHP range maybe)
New radiator
Bigger Brakes
Rebuild the stock auto trans

Hold off on cams, valve springs, guides, and other internals for now.

Shoot for low 500 with the 91 octane and high 5 to low 6+ with race fuel and more boost in the map. And if I get addicted to this thing and want more.... then all I should have to do is get a bigger turbo and buy a race fuel farm(hehehe)

I have done meth injection before and still do on my 4Runner(I dropped in a 3rz with a small turbo). Not that happy with that system to tell you the truth. I fill that it is kind of a mickey mouse bandaid in opinion(not that I really have your experience in this arena) it's just more of a gut feeling.

Borg Warner has a new turbo out(within in the last year and a half). I think it has a titanium fan and is suppose to spool up quicker. I am reading and hearing roomers that by 3k it has strong pull up to 5.5K Still looking into the truth about that turbo.

So that is my starting point. I still want to use this car to drive around town when I want too. I realize that I may have to sacrifice something but I want an all around street car with some get up and freaking go!

What do you think. How far off the mark am I here?

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by consol1

Supreme Fuel in my world is pump gas/91 octane…

Unfortunately, that pretty much sucks. Most of the rest of the US has access to 93 octane (calculated using (R+M)/2), which is more in-line with slightly-more-than oem boost levels. If you’re talking about big(er) power (eg. 600rwhp), there’s no practical way to achieve that power level on pump gas.

Originally Posted by consol1

… Thank you for the leak down videos. Did the compressions last night all between 172 and 174. That seems pretty good to me…

Agreed.

Originally Posted by consol1

…I am shooting for the 5 to 6 hundred + in WHP…

Pardon me for being blunt, but that’s not specific enough. We can build your Mkiv Supra Turbo to the specs of 500rwhp OR 525rwp OR 550rwhp OR 575rwhp OR 600rwhp…but I can’t help you build it to a range. You have to pick one point …most likely the max you want to achieve… and then we build to that one spec.

Originally Posted by consol1

…I was thinking about buying a new stand alone programable ECU with more than on map. …

PLEASE “hold your horses”. We haven’t even decided on a power spec yet. No need to jump to specific components.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Put the bolt on parts needed to run race fuel or 91 octane with 2 different maps…

If 2 different boost levels is one of your requirements (for whatever reason – I may ask for the opportunity to talk you out of this)…we can definitely include that in the specs for the build. Again, let’s not jump to any specific solutions yet.

Originally Posted by consol1

… I assumed that means the following: …

Please don’t assume. Let’s work through this one step at a time.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Complete New Fuel System(pump/injectors/etc) …

Not necessarily. It depends what point you pick for your power goal.

Originally Posted by consol1

…New Single turbo/manifold/etc…

Not necessarily.

Originally Posted by consol1

…New exhaust down piping and all…

For 500rwhp+, then the oem exhaust will be a restriction. However, note that you can do about 400rwhp with the oem exhaust with no issue whatsoever.

Originally Posted by consol1

…, shoot for 4"(lose the cats) …

No – 4” is not required for 500rwhp. It’s also not required for 600rwhp. Another bad assumption on your part. I know you’re anxious to get going, but please keep in mind the Mkiv Supra Turbo has been built to pretty-much your specs (as I understand them so far) hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. I can get you where you want to go without any guesswork or redundant purchasing or any wasted $ in over-building certain components.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Intercooler with all piping(750 to 1000 WHP range maybe) …

What am I missing? Didn’t you say 500-600whp above? How did we suddenly get to 1000whp??????

Originally Posted by consol1

…New radiator…

Not necessarily. This depends on your application.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Bigger Brakes…

Not necessarily. This depends on your application.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Rebuild the stock auto trans…

Not necessarily. This depends on whether you pick 500rwhp or 600whp.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Hold off on cams, valve springs, guides, and other internals for now. …

Wow – man are you ever getting ahead of yourself!!!! Internals – no way – the oem internals are good to 1000hp! Why on earth would you *ever* consider replacing them? Not “for now” – never. Got it? Regarding the valve springs, it depends on your application.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Shoot for low 500 with the 91 octane…

Hmmm. Again, the Mkiv Supra Turbo’s 183ci (!!!) engine cannot run high boost on your local pitifully low 91 octane pump fuel. We need to figure out some alternatives here, unless you want your 173psi compression numbers to plummet to 120psi or less. You decide…ok? When you do, we’ll figure out how to tackle the fueling issue. Even water injection (or preferably water+meth) would go a long way towards addressing the issue. If you care to check, I bet race fuel is quite easy to come by in Las Vegas. Let me know if you need a hand with this.

Originally Posted by consol1

…and high 5 to low 6+ with race fuel…

Again, you need to pick a specific number. 595rwhp? *shrug*

Originally Posted by consol1

…and more boost in the map. …

Not sure what you mean here…the map of the ecu? We might end up using the oem ecu…so sure – it could have a larger map area than we end up using… (?) Clear up what you mean for me if possible…

Originally Posted by consol1

…And if I get addicted to this thing and want more.... then all I should have to do is get a bigger turbo and buy a race fuel farm(hehehe)…

If you think you might want more, and your budget is flexible, just pick a number – even if you think it sounds crazy. We can build to your spec. Best to get you what you want right up front, instead of rebuilding it later.

Originally Posted by consol1

…I have done meth injection before and still do on one of my 4Runners(I dropped in a 3rz with a small turbo). Not that happy with that system to tell you the truth. I fill that it is kind of a mickey mouse bandaid in opinion(not that I really have your experience in this arena) it's just more of a gut feeling. …

Don’t disagree there are cheesy meth injection systems out there. There are good ones too.

Originally Posted by consol1

…Borg Warner has a new turbo out(within in the last year and a half). I think it has a titanium fan and is suppose to spool up quicker. I am reading and hearing roomers that by 3k it has strong pull up to 5.5K Still looking into the truth about that turbo. …

Unless it’s been used on a 2jz-gte, I’d prefer you stay away from it. If your turbine wheel, compressor wheel, a/r ratios, etc. aren’t all matched to the application, a good turbo in theory might suck on an unusual application like a very high-boost potential 3L engine.

Originally Posted by consol1

…So that is my starting point. I still want to use this car to drive around town when I want too…

Ok, we’ll keep that in mind. If you pick 1000whp though (per your intercooler specs), don’t expect it to drive like a ‘benz. J

Originally Posted by consol1

…I realize that I may have to sacrifice something but I want an all around street car with some get up and freaking go!

Originally Posted by consol1

What do you think. How far off the mark am I here?

Not at all. Again, let’s take it one step at a time though (don’t get ahead of yourself).

[consol1]

What a reply. Thanks for the time!!!!!!!If I wasn't able to laugh at myself before our meeting... you have sure gave me a crash course. I am a type a personalty(go figure).

I know myself pretty well and one thing I am sure of is the kind of horse power that I will want in the end will not be the kind I can control at the beginning. But I am a quick study. That is why I jump so far ahead. There are some componets that would be foolish not to install from the get go. A perfect example is he ECU. Stand alone systems are more dependable then adding a chip or other programs in my opinion. Plus you can't run 2 maps on a stock system. The fuel system is another perfect example.

I want to have a machine that will run on 91 to 93 octane and higher octane race fuel (116 octane). The only way I know that can be done is with two different maps on one ECU. That is why I recommended two boost levels also. Map One lower octane, lower boost. Map Two high octane, higher boost

The reason I am being vague about WHP power is I do not know what the number is due to the two fuel octane choices.

I am grateful for your opinions, experience, time, and knowledge. I have asked for it and I hope I am showing you the respect you deserve(due to my request). The other thing that from my first email that may have been forgotten is one of my qualifiers, time is of the essence. I am not the typical project builder in this area. My time is what is valuable. That is why you see me push and plan fast. I have a limited amount of time research and to invest in my toy.

I myself will not be building this toy alone. So if you need more specifics, please give me the list one more time and I will do my best to follow your lead. Thanks for your patients.