2jzgte swap advice

[normalsalaryman]

(sorry for the bad english), im new to 2jz engine but did some research and manage to get some basic knowledge about 2jzgte... i will be doing a 2jz gte swap into nissan a31 cefiro lol..i know its not supra, but supra is fricking rare in my country thats why i have no other option other than going with cefiro since most of rwd car in my country is a damn vans or suv ..i did manage to get the 2jzgte which is quite rare aswell,

-somehow my engine which ims ure it is pure 2jzgte but had the 5spd w58tranny..is this normal?
i also wonder what is the maximum power i can have on that w58tranny because i would be stuck for maybe 2year with that tranny(cant afford to get 6spd yet)..
-was thinking of having a 500rwhp, anyway ill be doing drifting alittle bit, but 90% of my driving is spirited driving(not that slamming gear changing driver)
-the car will be having an upgraded ECU,exhaust system,intercooler and in term of the car old chassis would be reinforced. anyone can give me roughly how much power increase from those mods.(oem turbo)

anyway i did race on N/A 4banger for sometime B,H,k series you name it its just im quite noob with turbo engine

so any inputs would be awesome

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

(sorry for the bad english), im new to 2jz engine but did some research and manage to get some basic knowledge about 2jzgte... i will be doing a 2jz gte swap into nissan a31 cefiro lol..i know its not supra, but supra is fricking rare in my country thats why i have no other option other than going with cefiro since most of rwd car in my country is a damn vans or suv ..i did manage to get the 2jzgte which is quite rare aswell,

-somehow my engine which ims ure it is pure 2jzgte but had the 5spd w58tranny..is this normal?
i also wonder what is the maximum power i can have on that w58tranny because i would be stuck for maybe 2year with that tranny(cant afford to get 6spd yet)..
-was thinking of having a 500rwhp, anyway ill be doing drifting alittle bit, but 90% of my driving is spirited driving(not that slamming gear changing driver)
-the car will be having an upgraded ECU,exhaust system,intercooler and in term of the car old chassis would be reinforced. anyone can give me roughly how much power increase from those mods.(oem turbo)

anyway i did race on N/A 4banger for sometime B,H,k series you name it its just im quite noob with turbo engine

so any inputs would be awesome

Welcome! Your English is just fine. I genuinely admire your multi-lingual skills. ...and congratulations on your choice to use the mighty 2jz-gte for your project!

I've done my best to answer your questions, as follows:

No, it's not normal for the W58 to be paired with the 2jz-gte...at least not from a Supra. Perhaps it's from an Aristo?

Apologies not sure how much power the W58 will hold, since it did not come in the Mkiv Supra Turbo. Perhaps another forum member can help...

I'm sorry to say that the upgraded ecu, exhaust system and intercooler would provide little to no power increase on their own. Who on earth told you to start with these modifications? Since you asked us for "inputs", here is my first one (seriously): forever stop listening to that person, in reference to your 2jz-gte swap. I'm absolutely serious about this input, because he/she will only confuse you if you continue to listen to his/her "inputs" too. He/she was already dead-wrong once, and he/she chose to share that dead-wrong bad advice with you!!! Most likely he/she will continue to be dead wrong about any/all advice in the future. If you don't completely get that person off your list of 2jz-gte advisors, you'll be severely limiting our ability to help you with other inputs.

The way you increase power in the 2jz-gte is to provide more boost. For that, you need:
(1) higher octane race fuel to keep the engine from being damaged (~US$10/gallon)
(2) You need to keep the wastegate from opening as soon. (Cost=US$0.25 or less)
(3) You also need to prevent fuel cut (which is an oem safeguard against boosting over oem levels using regular pump gas* ). (Cost=~US$125)
(4) A downpipe is your next mod, which removes the oem catalytic converters so the turbos spool quicker&harder. (Cost=~US$250+install)

When you get to thinking about it, you may possibly view (1) as a somewhat of an issue for your overall 2jz-gte swap. Although there are acceptable alternatives, please trust me that there is no way to eliminate this requirement. If anyone disputes that fact, send him/her to me. The alternatives include a reliable methanol+water injection system, and converting your 2jz-gte to run E85.

Please do some reading on "BPU" in the FAQ section, and here. After you've done that reading, please ask more questions.

Happy to help,
Phil

P.S. The oem 2jz-gte twins won't put out 500rwhp for any reasonable cost. You need to give up on that dream right now. I don't know where you heard this - my guess is probably from the same idiot that told you to buy an upgraded exhaust system as your first mod. Through a manual transmission, with race fuel and high boost, a used (50K+ miles) 2jz-gte might put out 450rwhp at most. More realistically you should expect 400rwhp-425rwhp with US-spec twins. If your twins are ceramic (Japanese-spec), you'll be at 375rwp-400rwhp at most realistically. If you will only be happy with more than that, throw those oem twins away right now and start with a single turbo (eg. 58mm+ inducer).

* See modification #(1). Modification #(2)+#(3) are only safe because you'll be using race fuel. Since modification #(3) bypasses the oem overboost safeguard, you must run race fuel or your 2jz-gte will get damaged when you raise your 2jz-gte's boost (using mod#(2)). If/when you switch back to pump gas, you need to eliminate the wastegate modification #(2)...which should be as simple as loosening a hose clamp with a screwdriver.

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

No, it's not normal for the W58 to be paired with the 2jz-gte...at least not from a Supra. Perhaps it's from an Aristo?

Apologies not sure how much power the W58 will hold, since it did not come in the Mkiv Supra Turbo. Perhaps another forum member can help...

I'm sorry to say that the upgraded ecu, exhaust system and intercooler would provide little to no power increase. Who on earth told you to do these modifications? Since you asked us for "inputs", here is my first one (seriously): forever stop listening to that person in reference to your 2jz-gte swap.

The way you increase power in the 2jz-gte is to provide more boost. For that, you need (1) higher octane race fuel to keep the engine from being damaged, and (2) you need to keep the wastegate from opening as soon. You also need to (3) prevent fuel cut (which is an oem safeguard against boosting over oem levels using regular pump gas*). A downpipe is your #(4) mod, which removes the oem catalytic converters so the turbos spool quicker&harder. Please do some reading on "BPU" in the FAQ section, and here. After you've done that reading, please ask more questions.

Happy to help,
Phil

* See modification #(1). Modification #(2)+#(3) are only safe because you'll be using race fuel. Since modification #(3) bypasses the oem overboost safeguard, you must run race fuel or your 2jz-gte will get damaged when you raise your 2jz-gte's boost (using mod#(2)). If/when you switch back to pump gas, you need to eliminate the wastegate modification #(2).

thx for the advice pwpanas.

most of the 2jzgte or 1jzgte engine that is sold in my country at least 90% of them were always paired to a 5spd w58 gearbox and i dont know why.

the car is still in body rigids steps so basicaly reinforced everything that need to be reinforced while im traveling to CAL at the moment hunting for parts, just bought the sets of hks coilover so far, so any idea what i should get next for the engine? so i cant provided any pic of the engine parts backhome.

and all the upgrades i have listed above upgraded ECU,bigger pipping and intercoler was just an anticipated mods,who knows i would like to go MORE.
well the guy who was told me to get those upgraded has the fastest turbo evo in my country and to be honest there were none smarter turbo guy than him in my country and its suck to have such a small choice of mechanic that you can choose from..

so you were saying fastest way to increase the engine power is not to let the boost off right? because i was thinking of not running any BOV at all,beside i love those zututu flutter sound,

my question is will it safe to run no BOV on this engine? and the blocking oem wastegate would be the same with running with no BOV? and what is the maximum boost number that oem TT can produce?

the info that i manage to collect from trolling pretty much of the 2jz forum, many of them were saying on w58 tranny you can hold max between 500-700hp..can you back me up with that info if you have time?

and do you think i need to get new fuel pump?since my stock fuelpump was for N/A engine,if yes what sort of fuel pump i should get?


thx

matt

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

thx for the advice pwpanas.

most of the 2jzgte or 1jzgte engine that is sold in my country at least 90% of them were always paired to a 5spd w58 gearbox and i dont know why.

the car is still in body rigids steps so basicaly reinforced everything that need to be reinforced while im traveling to CAL at the moment hunting for parts, just bought the sets of hks coilover so far, so any idea what i should get next for the engine? so i cant provided any pic of the engine parts backhome.

and all the upgrades i have listed above upgraded ECU,bigger pipping and intercoler was just an anticipated mods,who knows i would like to go MORE.
well the guy who was told me to get those upgraded has the fastest turbo evo in my country and to be honest there were none smarter turbo guy than him in my country and its suck to have such a small choice of mechanic that you can choose from..

so you were saying fastest way to increase the engine power is not to let the boost off right? because i was thinking of not running any BOV at all,beside i love those zututu flutter sound,

my question is will it safe to run no BOV on this engine? and the blocking oem wastegate would be the same with running with no BOV? and what is the maximum boost number that oem TT can produce?

the info that i manage to collect from trolling pretty much of the 2jz forum, many of them were saying on w58 tranny you can hold max between 500-700hp..can you back me up with that info if you have time?

and do you think i need to get new fuel pump?since my stock fuelpump was for N/A engine,if yes what sort of fuel pump i should get?


thx

matt

Hi Matt,

As I wrote in my previous post, you need to do some reading about BPU. That way you'll know where to start with the modifications. For example, instead of an exhaust, ecu, intercooler, and coilovers you should be buying a downpipe, a GReddy BCC or HKS FCD, and a boost gauge. This is an example of what you can learn from reading about BPU (and a whole lot more can be learned as well).

You need to buy the parts for the mods you know you need to achieve your goals. So far you have not told me any goals that would benefit from the parts you purchased. Why spend good money on parts that might end up being completely useless in achieving your specific goals?

Again, please stop listening to the guy with the evo. As you know, an evo does not run the 2jz-gte. If he told you to buy an upgraded (more than oem 2jz-gte) exhaust, an upgraded (more than 2jz-gte) intercooler, or an upgraded (more than oem 2jz-gte) ecu, he has no idea what he's talking about...since your power goal is only 500rwhp. With an EVO I'd guess he really does need to buy those upgraded parts to get 500rwhp, but you do not need to buy those things to get 500rwhp out of a 2jz-gte! That's one of the things that makes a 2jz-gte so great. If he told you to buy those things for a 2jz-gte, in my books he's not at all useful for your project...so therefore you must stop listening to him. Now you have us here on this forum to listen to, so you don't need to listen to him any more!

No, you have to increase boost produced by the turbos. This has nothing to do with the BOV. The BOV protects your turbos from being damaged in certain conditions, and has nothing to do with making MORE power. Again, you must continue to run the BOV to keep the turbo from being damaged. I have more to teach you about the oem 2jz-gte BOV when you're ready.

You should not block the oem wastegate or you will certainly overboost. Blocking off the wastegate would lead to unlimited boost levels (30+psi with the oem twins). Unless you're running pure $30/gallon 120+ octane race fuel, you cannot run unlimited boost from the oem twins...and even then the oem twins wouldn't last very long at all.

Again, the oem twins can put out 30psi - BUT at that level they are VERY inefficient (blowing very non-dense hot air). They also will die very quickly if you ask them to work that hard.

Larger turbo(s) boosting that same 30psi would make MUCH more power because it's more efficient at that boost level...the bigger turbo(s) would be 'blowing' (i.e. compressing) much cooler air, which is more dense. Denser air means more oxygen. More oxygen plus more fuel means more power.

Unfortunately, I have to tell you that I really no interest at all in the W58 tranny. If you want my general advice on it, I'd ask you to dump it and get a proper V160. Again, other forum members may be able to help you with your W58.

Everything you run should be from the 2jz-gte Mkiv Supra, including the fuel pump. If you had said that you wanted to go over 550rwhp, you would need to run two oem Mkiv Supra fuel pumps, together with a complete fuel system upgrade. Since your power goal is not that high, one oem 2jz-gte fuel pump (preferably from an Mkiv Supra Turbo) will be fine.

Kind regards,
Phil

P.S. "CAL" = California?

[normalsalaryman]

i forgot to tell you, when i bought the engine it was only complete engine+wiring+ecu+ stupid tranny... thats it. so no intercooler,exhaust except from the cefiro which is rb20e engine. and the car had a busted suspension...so pretty much i have to start from a scratch. and where i live to get the oem exhaust,intercooler,pipping and so on is nearly impossible. and i was starting to look for the v160 tranny last year and i still cant find it until today, either in my country or the neighbour country eg malaysia,singapore,thailand.. did find 1 in australia but my stupid country taxes are forbiding me to get it at reasonable price, it would cost me almost 4times of the price you pay for one of those in your country.. and oh yeah i was reading your link on BPU mods and thank god i wasnt wrong when i decided to go with 2jzgte
and. yeah i would continue to read everything on the 2jz engine on the net.

car will be done in feb and i cant barely wait to ride the jz.

anyway sorry if i did annoyed you with my noobest knowledge of turbo jz capabilities

ya cal=california

to be honest around 500hp was not my original goals, its just im aware that i have a weak tranny that might(not sure) handle only around 500 at max and i did not find a way yet to either smugle orsome other way to import the v160 at reasonable price to my place. so im assuming i would be stuck at that amount of hp for sometime

just to get you an idea i was paying around $5800usd for the motors and the outside condition was like its ready to get thrown to a trash can(dirty looks). and if youre lucky there maybe only 1 or 2 jz engine that get through my country in a year and most of them are auto's and i heard there is someone selling 2jz for $7500 engine,wiring,5spdtranny

but once i get v160 in my hand, i would certainly go aroun 1000hp.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

i forgot to tell you, when i bought the engine it was only complete engine+wiring+ecu+ stupid tranny... thats it. so no intercooler,exhaust except from the cefiro which is rb20e engine. and the car had a busted suspension...so pretty much i have to start from a scratch. and where i live to get the oem exhaust,intercooler,pipping and so on is nearly impossible. and i was starting to look for the v160 tranny last year and i still cant find it until today, either in my country or the neighbour country eg malaysia,singapore,thailand.. did find 1 in australia but my stupid country taxes are forbiding me to get it at reasonable price, it would cost me almost 4times of the price you pay for one of those in your country.. and oh yeah i was reading your link on BPU mods and thank god i wasnt wrong when i decided to go with 2jzgte
and. yeah i would continue to read everything on the 2jz engine on the net.

car will be done in feb and i cant barely wait to ride the jz.

anyway sorry if i did annoyed you with my noobest knowledge of turbo jz capabilities

ya cal=california

to be honest around 500hp was not my original goals, its just im aware that i have a weak tranny that might(not sure) handle only around 500 at max and i did not find a way yet to either smugle orsome other way to import the v160 at reasonable price to my place. so im assuming i would be stuck at that amount of hp for sometime

just to get you an idea i was paying around $5800usd for the motors and the outside condition was like its ready to get thrown to a trash can(dirty looks). and if youre lucky there maybe only 1 or 2 jz engine that get through my country in a year and most of them are auto's and i heard there is someone selling 2jz for $7500 engine,wiring,5spdtranny

but once i get v160 in my hand, i would certainly go aroun 1000hp.

Matt, I hope my posts were helpful - no need to apologize.

Bummer about the V160 procurement difficulties. Wish I could help with that somehow. I wonder if any junkyard dealers in Japan would be willing to export - perhaps with the commonality of the Mkiv Supra there, a V160/161 could be sold for a reasonable enough price...thereby lowering your overall costs (including taxes) enough to make it a practical proposition...

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not start with something like a Lexus IS300 or SC300? If those weren't sold in Indonesia, why not at least pick some sort of Toyota - even a Solara might have worked:
http://urbanracer.com/articles/anmviewer.asp?a=1353

Good luck with your project and please stay in touch.

Kind regards,
Phil

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Matt, I hope my posts were helpful - no need to apologize.

Bummer about the V160 procurement difficulties. Wish I could help with that somehow. I wonder if any junkyard dealers in Japan would be willing to export - perhaps with the commonality of the Mkiv Supra there, a V160/161 could be sold for a reasonable enough price...thereby lowering your overall costs (including taxes) enough to make it a practical proposition...

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not start with something like a Lexus IS300 or SC300? If those weren't sold in Indonesia, why not at least pick some sort of Toyota - even a Solara might have worked:
http://urbanracer.com/articles/anmviewer.asp?a=1353

Good luck with your project and please stay in touch.

Kind regards,
Phil

phil, your advice was a great boost of knowledge to me, such a simple thing yet gives great amount of extra rwhp.

well the last president was giving us a great deal (easier import rules and taxes) but unfortunately hes only sits as a president for 1years only and i dont know how that rules is no longer valid with this new president which already be a president for 9year.

the only cheapest option to build a RWD car is either corrola dx,a31cefiro,toyota crown <93 models (newer one is expensive and only a high official eg minister rides it),bmw 3or5 series and pretty much thats all the list of cheap RWD car in my country. prices tart from $1000 to max price is around $11-13k

thing like is250,soarer,mkiv supra and most of the sports car is way to pricey starts from $30k to a doesnt make sense pricing.

there is only 3 jza80(not sure about the code) and the 2004 S2000 goes for $60k. but most of the sports car average prices sits around $50k due to 200-250% of the car taxes which is a killing. that taxing percentage also for 2nd hand imported engine and tranny too.

and the rest cheap RWD car that commonly available is either SUV or a Van and some of them is a wagon..

thats why i was going with a31cefiro. and ya i will keep my project updated once i got back home...

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

phil, your advice was a great boost of knowledge to me, such a simple thing yet gives great amount of extra rwhp.

well the last president was giving us a great deal (easier import rules and taxes) but unfortunately hes only sits as a president for 1years only and i dont know how that rules is no longer valid with this new president which already be a president for 9year.

the only cheapest option to build a RWD car is either corrola dx,a31cefiro,toyota crown <93 models (newer one is expensive and only a high official eg minister rides it),bmw 3or5 series and pretty much thats all the list of cheap RWD car in my country. prices tart from $1000 to max price is around $11-13k

thing like is250,soarer,mkiv supra and most of the sports car is way to pricey starts from $30k to a doesnt make sense pricing.

there is only 3 jza80(not sure about the code) and the 2004 S2000 goes for $60k. but most of the sports car average prices sits around $50k due to 200-250% of the car taxes which is a killing. that taxing percentage also for 2nd hand imported engine and tranny too.

and the rest cheap RWD car that commonly available is either SUV or a Van and some of them is a wagon..

thats why i was going with a31cefiro. and ya i will keep my project updated once i got back home...

If you don't mind me pointing this out, the 2jz-gte is not an inexpensive engine to run. Among many other things, it requires fully synthetic oil and race fuel (and/or water-meth injection, or E85) at higher boost levels.

A 2jz-gte (with high boost) also puts out enough horsepower that (perhaps) the a31cefiro chassis and/or brakes won't be able to handle it. There's a good reason the jza80 chassis+engine is $30K+ - it's because the entire automotive system was engineered together (by Toyota and TRD of course) to handle all of the power potential and other performance characteristics (braking, handling, aerodynamics, traction, etc., etc.).

Have you heard the expression "there is no such thing as a free lunch"? If not, it means you'll always end up paying one way or another - in time/labor, frustration, rework, risk, etc. Although I definitely wish you luck with your project no matter what you decide, I have to let you know I'm quite skeptical about your (apparent) goal of trying to do it all really cheaply. Alternatively, you may wish to consider working longer and/or harder and saving up the $ to purchase the Mkiv Toyota Supra Turbo that it seems you may really want. I can assure you that it will be worth the wait...

[normalsalaryman]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

If you don't mind me pointing this out, the 2jz-gte is not an inexpensive engine to run. Among many other things, it requires fully synthetic oil and race fuel (and/or water-meth injection, or E85) at higher boost levels.

A 2jz-gte (with high boost) also puts out enough horsepower that (perhaps) the a31cefiro chassis and/or brakes won't be able to handle it. There's a good reason the jza80 chassis+engine is $30K+ - it's because the entire automotive system was engineered together (by Toyota and TRD of course) to handle all of the power potential and other performance characteristics (braking, handling, aerodynamics, traction, etc., etc.).

Have you heard the expression "there is no such thing as a free lunch"? If not, it means you'll always end up paying one way or another - in time/labor, frustration, rework, risk, etc. Although I definitely wish you luck with your project no matter what you decide, I have to let you know I'm quite skeptical about your (apparent) goal of trying to do it all really cheaply. Alternatively, you may wish to consider working longer and/or harder and saving up the $ to purchase the Mkiv Toyota Supra Turbo that it seems you may really want. I can assure you that it will be worth the wait...

no no, you get me wrong to think that i want the cheapest stuff...when i say $30k is something like cheapest sports car like toyota celica the one with 2zzengine.

jza80 pricing sits at $95k the whole complete car on auto tranny..

as for the a31 cefiro body to hold lets say 1000hp to be honest i wasnt sure if the body would handle that much power even i did reinforced trying to increase the body rigids steps. i guess we will know after the car is done.

and for the fuel originaly we only have 98 octane for the highest quality fuel, but i have the acces to get the race fuel like vp or avgas(thats what we called it) easy.

as in for amount of money would be blown to mods the car, i am familiar with that. as i do own 2 honda eg fully race built. so i know faster=more money.

what i've been posting about 2jz is that i get the impression from the forum that you can go pretty cheap with 2jz for certain amount of money, and i do aware if i want to go 700hp+ equal to big money involved.

and i've been wondering about how cheap you can go on the 2jz for lower that 500hp because i planned to daily the car. im talking about the longevity of the engine assuming i did all the thing right if i go the cheapest way.thats why i've been asking all the guru's or experienced guys such as your self on this forum phill. and im trying my best to get it right for the first time for the turbo engine.

lets say most of the advice is telling me to go expensive, i wouldnt mind that

anyway if i do have an aftermarket ECU will i still need BCC to run higher boost on oem TT without having a fuel cut? and if i do still need BCC on upgraded ECU what brand i should go with for the BCC since the only BCC brand that i know is greddy and its discontinued.

thx
Matt

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by normalsalaryman

no no, you get me wrong to think that i want the cheapest stuff...when i say $30k is something like cheapest sports car like toyota celica the one with 2zzengine.

jza80 pricing sits at $95k the whole complete car on auto tranny..

as for the a31 cefiro body to hold lets say 1000hp to be honest i wasnt sure if the body would handle that much power even i did reinforced trying to increase the body rigids steps. i guess we will know after the car is done.

and for the fuel originaly we only have 98 octane for the highest quality fuel, but i have the acces to get the race fuel like vp or avgas(thats what we called it) easy.

as in for amount of money would be blown to mods the car, i am familiar with that. as i do own 2 honda eg fully race built. so i know faster=more money.

what i've been posting about 2jz is that i get the impression from the forum that you can go pretty cheap with 2jz for certain amount of money, and i do aware if i want to go 700hp+ equal to big money involved.

and i've been wondering about how cheap you can go on the 2jz for lower that 500hp because i planned to daily the car. im talking about the longevity of the engine assuming i did all the thing right if i go the cheapest way.thats why i've been asking all the guru's or experienced guys such as your self on this forum phill. and im trying my best to get it right for the first time for the turbo engine.

lets say most of the advice is telling me to go expensive, i wouldnt mind that

anyway if i do have an aftermarket ECU will i still need BCC to run higher boost on oem TT without having a fuel cut? and if i do still need BCC on upgraded ECU what brand i should go with for the BCC since the only BCC brand that i know is greddy and its discontinued.

thx
Matt

you're right - a BCC is only needed with the oem 2jz-gte ecu. Still, my other BPU advice still applies - you need a downpipe (bypassing the catalytic converters), a boost gauge, and a boost controller long before you need to spend money on a big intercooler or a huge 4"+ aftermarket exhaust...

500rwhp is not really a cost-effective point for the 2jz-gte. you could do:

- 350rwhp on pump gas, using the oem twins
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 425rwhp on race fuel or alcohol, using the oem twins

- 475rwhp on pump gas, using a moderate size single turbo, & fuel system
...(if you're very careful about controlling boost precisely)
- 650rwhp or so on race fuel or alcohol, using a moderate size single turbo & fuel system

for the 2jz-gte, those are your most cost effective points

oh, note that avgas is not the same as race fuel. avgas is aviation fuel, which is chemically engineered to run best at higher altitudes. it has the wrong % of long-chain hydrocarbons to effectively power a turbocharged car engine at ground level.