Stock Block

[Evilfurby]

I am thinking of getting 97 mkiv, how much power can the stock block hold? Can you get all that power on the stock TT's?

-Evilfurby

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by Evilfurby

I am thinking of getting 97 mkiv, how much power can the stock block hold? Can you get all that power on the stock TT's?

-Evilfurby

Well it depends on what your goals are. The stock block in my experience has been able to hold over 800whp fairly easily. And that will probably be too much for you. The stock turbos can produce an easy 650whp then you will either need to upgrade the turbos or go to one large turbo. Also you will need to enhance the fuel management after 500whp.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Well it depends on what your goals are. The stock block in my experience has been able to hold over 800whp fairly easily. And that will probably be too much for you. The stock turbos can produce an easy 650whp then you will either need to upgrade the turbos or go to one large turbo. Also you will need to enhance the fuel management after 500whp.

Stock turbos push less than 500rwhp. No one has ever made anywhere near 650whp with the stock turbos.

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Stock turbos push less than 500rwhp. No one has ever made anywhere near 650whp with the stock turbos.

Let me get back to you on this. I remember reading somewhere but I forget where. Hold on let me research this. I know I seen this done before.

[SKILMATIC]

Actually let me do the math on this. A 93-98 tt supra puts out about 320hp stock. The stock boost on the ct26's is usually around 7-11.5(ea). Now the ct26's are much like a conventional t3/t4. The ct26 is capable of putting out 20psi max. Now each psi equals about 7-10hp. If we up the boost from the stock 10psi on each turbo to say 20psi on each turbo thats 40 psi total on a 2jz NA puts out around 240. So take 40multiply that by 10 you get 400hp add the stock motors hp which is 240 and you get around 640hp. The proof is in the math. Of course engine management/fuel management will be needed. But the stock turbos are capable of that mark. Now if I can only find that dam link.

I hope all that made sense. Sorry if that was confusing.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Actually let me do the math on this. A 93-98 tt supra puts out about 320hp stock. The stock boost on the ct26's is usually around 7-11.5(ea). Now the ct26's are much like a conventional t3/t4. The ct26 is capable of putting out 20psi max. Now each psi equals about 7-10hp. If we up the boost from the stock 10psi on each turbo to say 20psi on each turbo thats 40 psi total on a 2jz NA puts out around 240. So take 40multiply that by 10 you get 400hp add the stock motors hp which is 240 and you get around 640hp. The proof is in the math. Of course engine management/fuel management will be needed. But the stock turbos are capable of that mark. Now if I can only find that dam link.

I hope all that made sense. Sorry if that was confusing.

Your post is not confusing in the least, but your earlier post clearly said 650whp. What you're saying now (640hp at the crank) is still too high, but it's quite a bit closer to reality. The absolute maximum recorded horsepower figure for a stock us-spec 2jz-gte (including stock cams) with stock 2jz-gte turbos, an open exhaust, 20+psi of boost and race fuel is very near to 500rwhp through a 6spd (regardless of fuel or engine management). Driveline loss through a manual tranny is generally accepted as 15%, which gives us about 588.25 hp at the crank.

If you think you can build an Mkiv Supra TT with a bone-stock 2jz-gte and stock twins that will produce 640hp at the crank (a full 544hp at the wheels) then do so and you will be in the record books. Until then, the theoretical maximum for the oem 2jz-gte twin turbos on a normally aspirated (NA) 2jz-ge is irrelevant to Evilfurby's original question. I might also remind you that the 2jz-ge (NA) has higher compression than the 2jz-gte...and that the head is different so the oem twins don't bolt up to the 2jz-ge head.

I hope that wasn't confusing.

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Your post is not confusing in the least, but your earlier post clearly said 650whp. What you're saying now (640hp at the crank) is still too high, but it's quite a bit closer to reality. The absolute maximum recorded horsepower figure for a stock us-spec 2jz-gte (including stock cams) with stock 2jz-gte turbos, with an open exhaust, 20+psi and race fuel is very, very near to 500rwhp with a 6spd (regardless of fuel or engine management). Driveline loss through a manual tranny is generally accepted as 15%, which gives us about 588.25 hp at the crank.

If you think you can build an Mkiv Supra TT with a bone-stock 2jz-gte and stock twins that will produce 640hp at the crank (a full 544hp at the wheels) then do so and you will be in the record books. Until then, the theoretical maximum for two ct26's on a normally aspirated (NA) 2jz-ge is irrelevant to Evilfurby's original question. I might also remind you that the 2jz-ge (NA) has higher compression than the 2jz-gte...and that the head is different so the oem twins don't bolt up to the 2jz-ge head.

I hope that wasn't too confusing for you.

Well again I am not talking about a stock top end I am talking about just a stock bottom end(as I have repeatedly said stock block) with the stock turbos. And I meant to say 650rwhp. With a better grind cams, angle cut valves, and a P&P head you can easily squeeze out 650rwhp.

Btw, I have never heard anyone say "normally aspriated" before. I usually here it as called naturally aspirated.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Well again I am not talking about a stock top end I am talking about just a stock bottom end(as I have repeatedly said stock block) with the stock turbos. And I meant to say 650rwhp. With a better grind cams, angle cut valves, and a P&P head you can easily squeeze out 650rwhp...

Sorry, ain't gonna happen...not at 20psi, and not for any feasible dollar amount.

...Also you're the one that brought up horsepower figures for an NA (normally/naturally aspirated) 2jz, which has different pistions in the bottom end than the 2jz-gte that comes with the '97 Mkiv TT.

Lastly, I sincerely doubt Evilfuby was talking about buying a '97 Mkiv TT for 20K, and then spending another $15K on headwork (and even with $15K of headwork and cams you STILL won't get 650rwhp out of the stock twins)... LOL!

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Sorry, ain't gonna happen...not at 20psi, and not for any feasible dollar amount.

Also, I sincerely doubt Evilfuby was talking about buying a '97 Mkiv TT for 20K, and then spending another $15K on headwork... LOL!

Umm the headwork can be done at a local precision shop for less than 1500bucks. I have no idea where you are getting your prices from but I would seriosuly stop going to whatever shop you go to. The cams you can get(depending on the brand) for no more than 800. And again we are talking about 20psi to each turbo which equivlates to 40total psi.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by SKILMATIC

Umm the headwork can be done at a local precision shop for less than 1500bucks. I have no idea where you are getting your prices from but I would seriosuly stop going to whatever shop you go to. The cams you can get(depending on the brand) for no more than 800. And again we are talking about 20psi to each turbo which equivlates to 40total psi.

OMG! 40psi on the stock twins! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. That's SO far out of their efficiency range it's rediculous. Even if you could get 40psi out of the oem twins without twisting their pencil-thin shafts to licorice...at that boost level they're super-heating the air, so you get more volume&pressure without any additional horsepower-producing oxygen.

...oh, and sorry to be the one clue you into the fact that turbo pressure isn't additive. In order to get 40psi out of the stock twins, they'd BOTH have to be pushing 40psi (not 20psi each LOL ).

I personally know of only two Mkiv Supra TT owners (one individual and one race team) that literally spent many, many thousands of $ trying to do better than 500rwhp with the stock twins. They both did eventually get there, but even 500rwhp is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve. Even 500rwhp (a VERY, VERY FAR cry from 650rwhp on oem twins) requires EXTENSIVE modifications to BRAND-NEW turbos from Toyota, modified manifolds, throttle body, charge-air system, actuators, wastegate, extrude-honing, P&P, and a BRAND-NEW shortblock from Toyota! In fact, most bpu++++ Mkiv Supras with 50K miles or more on the odo don't ever achieve more than 425rwhp (including me, back when I was 'bpu'). A very few bpu+++ Mkiv Supra TT's do get into the mid and higher 400's, but even that's VERY rare; fwiw, I'd estimate no more than 25 bpu++++ Mkiv Supras ever above 475rwhp (boost only, no NO2) in the US.

Like I said, if YOU think that YOU can build a 650rwhp Mkiv Supra TT (stock twins), with a bone-stock 2jz-gte bottom end (even if you do cams, oversize valves or WHATEVER to the 2jz-gte head)...WITHOUT NO2 (and on gasoline not nitromathane ), then I'd encourage you to try. You'd hold the record by a LONG shot, and I'm sure you'd sell that 'would-be-famous' Supra for whatever $ you put into it. Until then, you're doing nothing but spouting absolute nonsense. Really. I do wish you LOTS of luck...because you'll need LOTS of luck, and a heavy dose of magic too, because it's just not possible.