Purpose Built 2JZ-GE racing engine

[90lexus]

I am building a purpose built 2JZ-GE engine and it will eventually be turbo charged and is going to be used on a competitive drift car, but first I am switching out:

Pistons
Head
Cams
Valves-Springs
Intake
Throttle Body
Oil Pan (going to dry sump)
Fuel Pump, Rails, and Injectors
ECU

I want to also raise the red line to 8,000 but im not exactly sure of what that would entail...

This is my first engine that is being built for drifting and if anyone has any advice on do's and don't's on making a drifting engine it would be appreciated

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 90lexus

I am building a purpose built 2JZ-GE engine and it will eventually be turbo charged and is going to be used on a competitive drift car, but first I am switching out:

Pistons
Head
Cams
Valves-Springs
Intake
Throttle Body
Oil Pan (going to dry sump)
Fuel Pump, Rails, and Injectors
ECU

I want to also raise the red line to 8,000 but im not exactly sure of what that would entail...

This is my first engine that is being built for drifting and if anyone has any advice on do's and don't's on making a drifting engine it would be appreciated

DOs:

1. Imho, do start with a 2JZ-GTE instead, if you're certain that you're going to turbo it for sure. What posessed you to start with 'yota's de-tuned version of this incredible engine????
2. Figure out your max rwhp goal (post-turbo) before you buy anything or do any mods.
3. Keep your rwhp goal small, if you don't want to deal with turbo lag while drifting. There are reasons that you don't see many 2JZs drifting (especially on short, tight courses), and one of them is having to deal with turbo lag.

DON'Ts:

1. Imho, don't start with a 2JZ-GE, if you're going to turbo it for sure. What posessed you to start with 'yota's de-tuned version of this incredible engine????
2. Don't switch your pistons until you know your rwhp goal. The oem pistons (even the relatively wimpy oem 2JZ-GE pistons) can handle a lot of hp compared with other engines.
3. Don't switch your cams until you know precisely what your max rwhp goal is.
4. Don't try to run the same cams both non-turbo and turbo.
5. Don't try to run the same pistons both non-turbo and turbo.
6. Don't decide to change your intake until you know exactly what your rwhp goal is.
7. "" for the throttle body.
8. Don't decide what fuel pump or injectors you're going to run until you know your exact max rwhp goal.

QUESTIONs:

1. When you say you're switching out the head, what are you switching it out to? A 2JZ-GTE head?
2. What is your rwhp goal?
3. What compression pistons where you thinking of getting?
4. What duration of cams were you thinking of getting?
5. What size of injectors were you thinking of getting?
6. Isn't an ES250 a bit too heavy to drift competitively?

ANSWERs:

1. To raise your rev limit to 8K, you'll need aftermarket valve springs, titanium retainers, and a modified (or aftermarket) ecu.
2. You'll also need that aftermarket ecu to control your larger-than-stock injectors.

COMMENTs:

1. That dry sump system sounds cool (expensive too). Please post pictures of this modification, since it is somewhat unique.
2. Be very aware that if you try to run this engine non-turbo, and then turbo it later, you'll very likely have to re-do all of the engine mods at that time.

[90lexus]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

DOs:

1. Imho, do start with a 2JZ-GTE instead, if you're certain that you're going to turbo it for sure. What posessed you to start with 'yota's de-tuned version of this incredible engine????
2. Figure out your max rwhp goal (post-turbo) before you buy anything or do any mods.
3. Keep your rwhp goal small, if you don't want to deal with turbo lag while drifting. There are reasons that you don't see many 2JZs drifting (especially on short, tight courses), and one of them is having to deal with turbo lag.

1. I would have liked to start with a 2JZ-GTE but i couldn't find one unless i bought engine assembly with turbos and in most cases the entire front clip from some other car using that engine (whether it was a Lexus or Toyota or whatever) and I didn't want to spend the money that a 2JZ-GTE cost with turbos and acc. (my budget is small at any given time but growing larger with every paycheck) or on the entire front clip.

2. My rwhp goal is 600

3. Is turbo lag going to be that big a deal when in the higher RPM range that I am assuming you should be in when drifting?

Originally Posted by pwpanas

DON'Ts:

1. Imho, don't start with a 2JZ-GE, if you're going to turbo it for sure. What posessed you to start with 'yota's de-tuned version of this incredible engine????
2. Don't switch your pistons until you know your rwhp goal. The oem pistons (even the relatively wimpy oem 2JZ-GE pistons) can handle a lot of hp compared with other engines.
3. Don't switch your cams until you know precisely what your max rwhp goal is.
4. Don't try to run the same cams both non-turbo and turbo.
5. Don't try to run the same pistons both non-turbo and turbo.
6. Don't decide to change your intake until you know exactly what your rwhp goal is.
7. "" for the throttle body.
8. Don't decide what fuel pump or injectors you're going to run until you know your exact max rwhp goal.

1. I was planning on swapping most of the parts that seperate the 2JZ-GE from the 2JZ-GTE even if i was to get the 2JZ-GTE.

2. Im not worried about the rwhp goal for my pistons, it was one of your previous replys that said the connecting rods are good to 850 rwhp so im assuming the pistons would be fine for the 600 rwhp i want, but im worried about what will happen to them if i raise the redline.

3, 6, 7, 8. 600 rwhp

4. I wouldn't run the same cams for an n/a or a turbo engine

5. Same for the pistons.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

QUESTIONs:

1. When you say you're switching out the head, what are you switching it out to? A 2JZ-GTE head?
2. What is your rwhp goal?
3. What compression pistons where you thinking of getting?
4. What duration of cams were you thinking of getting?
5. What size of injectors were you thinking of getting?
6. Isn't an ES250 a bit too heavy to drift competitively?

1. I want to switch out to an aftermarket replacement for the 2JZ-GTE head, but im not sure what company but i am currently researching that

2. 600 rwhp

3. I was looking for some advice on this but i was thinking somewhere between 10-12:1 comp. ratio so i could get more hp straight from the engine and keep the turbo smaller, and yes i want to go single turbo

4. Im not exactly sure. What i've narrowed it down to so far seems to fit into the category of "semi-rough idle". In other words fairly lumpy but so that it won't stall if i don't put throttle into it.

5. I have no idea except that they would be bigger.

6. It is on the heavy side but most of the es250 is getting stripped out and I am tunneling the body and with the dry sump system i can greatly lower the center of gravity and I am widening the wheel base so although the car is heavy with all the different mods it, in theory, is managable... If there is something skewed with my thinking let me know.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

ANSWERs:

1. To raise your rev limit to 8K, you'll need aftermarket valve springs, titanium retainers, and a modified (or aftermarket) ecu.
2. You'll also need that aftermarket ecu to control your larger-than-stock injectors.

1. Although I didn't state it the titanium springs/retainers were already planned along with the after market ECU. Any good companies to get the ECU from?

2. Good to know, thanks.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

COMMENTs:

1. That dry sump system sounds cool (expensive too). Please post pictures of this modification, since it is somewhat unique.
2. Be very aware that if you try to run this engine non-turbo, and then turbo it later, you'll very likely have to re-do all of the engine mods at that time.

1. Definately, pics will be posted as project rolls along.

2. I was planning on running it non-turbo but only before the engine mods were put in... I know I'd need a 2JZ-GE ECU and then I'd have to get the new ECU when mods are done, but I need a car to drive sometime during this time otherwise I'd go crazy...

Also, is 600 rwhp feasible with a n/a motor on pump gas? I've been tossing around the idea of keeping it n/a but am not sure its worth it. And a couple things i forgot to mention in my initial thread; the car will be a purpose built competition drift car but is going to be street legal and needs to be able to run on pump gas.

Thank you for your reply.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 90lexus

1. I would have liked to start with a 2JZ-GTE but i couldn't find one unless i bought engine assembly with turbos and in most cases the entire front clip from some other car using that engine (whether it was a Lexus or Toyota or whatever) and I didn't want to spend the money that a 2JZ-GTE cost with turbos and acc. (my budget is small at any given time but growing larger with every paycheck) or on the entire front clip...

Fwiw, I wouldn't let a short-term funds shortage impact your overall design in such a serious way. If you look long & hard you can find a 2JZ-GTE w/turbos from almost any Japanese engine importer (usually from an Aristo). Just mho, fwiw.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...3. Is turbo lag going to be that big a deal when in the higher RPM range that I am assuming you should be in when drifting?...

Yep...and it's not just lag you're dealing with - it's the varying rwhp level depending on rpm. The good part about turbos is they can make a lot of power. It feels great when that power keeps ramping up like its never going to stop. The bad side is a roadracer trying to deal with that at-times wildly varying rwhp curve.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...1. I was planning on swapping most of the parts that seperate the 2JZ-GE from the 2JZ-GTE even if i was to get the 2JZ-GTE....

I don't understand what you mean.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...2. Im not worried about the rwhp goal for my pistons, it was one of your previous replys that said the connecting rods are good to 850 rwhp so...

ONLY IN THE 2JZ-GTE!!!

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...im assuming the pistons would be fine for the 600 rwhp i want...

Depends on what you get, but likely yes regardless.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...but im worried about what will happen to them if i raise the redline....

Your valvetrain is the primary consideration when raising the redline (not the pistons).

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...3, 6, 7, 8. 600 rwhp...

Is that post-turbo?

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...1. I want to switch out to an aftermarket replacement for the 2JZ-GTE head, but im not sure what company but i am currently researching that...

There's no such thing. There are only companies that port/polish/valve-seat-cut, etc.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...3. I was looking for some advice on this but i was thinking somewhere between 10-12:1 comp. ratio so i could get more hp straight from the engine and keep the turbo smaller, and yes i want to go single turbo...

10:1 is too big to turbo, and 12:1 will require race fuel.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...4. Im not exactly sure. What i've narrowed it down to so far seems to fit into the category of "semi-rough idle". In other words fairly lumpy but so that it won't stall if i don't put throttle into it....

I can advise you better on cams after you've gone turbo.
...[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...6. It is on the heavy side but most of the es250 is getting stripped out and I am tunneling the body and with the dry sump system i can greatly lower the center of gravity and I am widening the wheel base so although the car is heavy with all the different mods it, in theory, is managable... If there is something skewed with my thinking let me know....

Glad you're considering such extensive mods. Again, you've got a cool project going on here - please take lots of photos and post them all!!!

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...1. Although I didn't state it the titanium springs/retainers were already planned along with the after market ECU. Any good companies to get the ECU from?...

For a pure racecar, Motec is an awesome choice.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

... 2. I was planning on running it non-turbo but only before the engine mods were put in... I know I'd need a 2JZ-GE ECU...

Why? Will you be driving it in bone-stock form?

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...Also, is 600 rwhp feasible with a n/a motor on pump gas?...

Imho and ime, no.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...I've been tossing around the idea of keeping it n/a but am not sure its worth it. And a couple things i forgot to mention in my initial thread; the car will be a purpose built competition drift car but is going to be street legal and needs to be able to run on pump gas...

600rwhp from a normally-aspirated 3L on pump gas is asking a LOT. In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet $$$ that it can't be done without nos or a heavy dose of meth w/v.high compression pistons.

[90lexus]

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Fwiw, I wouldn't let a short-term funds shortage impact your overall design in such a serious way. If you look long & hard you can find a 2JZ-GTE w/turbos from almost any Japanese engine importer (usually from an Aristo). Just mho, fwiw.

Well I appreciate your humble opinion and it is dualy noted for my next project, but I already ordered the GE and its on its way.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Yep...and it's not just lag you're dealing with - it's the varying rwhp level depending on rpm. The good part about turbos is they can make a lot of power. It feels great when that power keeps ramping up like its never going to stop. The bad side is a roadracer trying to deal with that at-times wildly varying rwhp curve.

Okay, well I really want to make it to that 600 rwhp and if it is as hard as you say to do that with out a turbo ill just have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

I don't understand what you mean.

I was going to replace the heads and pistons, make my own intake, and get a new intake manifold, and from what i understand those are the only things that are different from the 2JZ-GTE and the 2JZ-GE.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

ONLY IN THE 2JZ-GTE!!!

Okay, well would the connecting rods and crank be able to handle the load?

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Depends on what you get, but likely yes regardless.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Your valvetrain is the primary consideration when raising the redline (not the pistons).

Well either way they are both getting changed.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Is that post-turbo?

Its my final output, so since I am going turbo yes, thats post turbo.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

There's no such thing. There are only companies that port/polish/valve-seat-cut, etc.

Well I'll just get a 2JZ-GTE head. How much are the gains from a port/polish and all that?

Originally Posted by pwpanas

10:1 is too big to turbo, and 12:1 will require race fuel.

What is the highest comp. ratio i can go with a turbo?

Originally Posted by pwpanas

I can advise you better on cams after you've gone turbo.
...

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Glad you're considering such extensive mods. Again, you've got a cool project going on here - please take lots of photos and post them all!!!

I always document my work and i definately will post all pics.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

Why? Will you be driving it in bone-stock form?

Well I just want to get the project rolling before i get the turbo, so i was thinking of putting the unmoded engine in my rear-wheel-drive-converted car while im saving the money for all of the parts, so i can get one large chunk of the project out of the way and then i'd pull the engine when i got the turbo and everything and put all of the new components into the engine.

Originally Posted by pwpanas

600rwhp from a normally-aspirated 3L on pump gas is asking a LOT. In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet $$$ that it can't be done without nos or a heavy dose of meth w/v.high compression pistons.

Okay, so turbo it is.

Thanks for the help, even though you haven't even touched on specifics your information is extremely helpful for planning out my project.

[pwpanas]

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...I was going to replace the heads and pistons, make my own intake, and get a new intake manifold, and from what i understand those are the only things that are different from the 2JZ-GTE and the 2JZ-GE...

Wrong...very wrong. There are MANY other differences, as detailed in many threads in this and other forums, as well as the original 'yota docs:
http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/ncf/ncf93/

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...Okay, well would the connecting rods and crank be able to handle the load?...

Crank yes (same in 2jz-gte and 2jz-ge). Rods I can't say 100% for sure (since I don't work on very many n/a's), but I'd guess that for only 600rwhp: yep.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...Well I'll just get a 2JZ-GTE head. How much are the gains from a port/polish and all that?...

Whoa hold on there. You do realize the 2jz-gte head requires a totally different ignition system, and a different exhaust manifold (due to the port spacing), right? I'm pretty sure that the ports for the intake manifold are different as well...

A 2jz-gte head will flow 600rwhp no prob, with no porting & polishing.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...What is the highest comp. ratio i can go with a turbo?...

With pure methanol you could probably run 11:1 and turbo it too. Pump gas is a totally different story. It all depends how much boost you're going to run. Normally, the way you make 600rwhp with a 2JZ-GTE, you run 8.5:1 pistons, about 25psi of boost, and 100 octane race fuel.

Originally Posted by 90lexus

...Thanks for the help, even though you haven't even touched on specifics your information is extremely helpful for planning out my project.

I'll get into as many specifics as I can...ask away...