Are There Any Honest Mechanics? - Page 2

mrnickleye · 01-05-2006, 02:31 AM

here's a link on 'burping your baby'

http://www.supras.com/06/techcenter/...0f95928a5c87c2

Isphius · 03-19-2006, 07:10 AM

There is plenty of honest mechanics, but the majority give the rest a bad name. i went to meinike for an alignment, And the guy came up to me and said, your car has a whole list of problems. And after i talked all the BS out of him(guess he realized i knew what i was talking about),they told me i needed a new power steering system and wheel bearings to get an alignment. And they wouldnt even let me in the bay to look at the car. they gave me a 450$ estimate to change the bearings, and said they couldnt even get the rack. And this is after a 2+ hour wait in line to get my car on a lift. So i basically gave meinike the finger and decided never to go back there. I took my car to a little shop by me, that my friend goes to, and the guy aligned my car for 70$. Drives perfectly straight, wheel isnt crooked, anything. shows what shopping around can do too.

Troyota · 03-19-2006, 10:42 PM

Honestly, owning a Supra is a good way to learn how to work on a car. The Chilton's manual will tell you pretty much all you need to know. If you MUST take it to a mechanic, shop around...I usually take it to the dealership because at least one or two of the guys have been around long enough to have done some work on a 7m engine (if it gets the the point that I need to have someone else work on it, I've really messed something up!). They may charge you a bit more, but I think it's worth it to know that it's being worked on by someone who knows thier stuff. Now, I am ASE Certified (after I bought my Supra) and personally know all the techs at my local Toyota dealer so I would definitely trust them and sometimes call them up for advice.

Fuel · 03-24-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffboy

Is everyone out there to rip me off. How can I find an honest mechanic? Do they exist?

James in NJ

Atleast you were able to catch the mechanic before he ripped you off. The mechanic I took my car to charged me for parts I did not okay him to buy. He replaced a perfectly fine turbo hose which ended up costing me 132 dollars. Also parts that worked fine when I took the car in mysteriously stopped working or were broke when he got his dirty little hands on them. He went 500 dollars over his estimate and i only okayed, at max, 150 of it. I have since towed my car to another mechanic, who I can trust (hopefully), and he told me that I will need to replace 2 sensors. It will cost me atleast another 500 dollars to replace the Air Mass Meter and TPS.

lethalwithasupra · 03-26-2006, 09:39 AM

Just nosy but what is he trying to fix ? cos the Mass AFM and the TPS that sounds kinda odd.

mrnickleye · 03-28-2006, 05:48 AM

^^true....both AFM & TPS bad seems strange. I manage a smog repair shop, so I see these kinds of problems every day, and if only 1 of those items is bad, the car will run bad, or not run at all.

Those parts can be tested individually. Some shops/techs want to just replace parts, and not spend time to diagnose.

Here in Calif. I can NOT charge ANY more $$$ (even if I installed the part, and it ran perfectly with it) until I get the approval of the customer FIRST.

If I did do more than authorized, I can loose the $$ when the customer says he ain't paying it. Of course I can take the part off and put his bad one back on.

Any customer can call the Better Business Beurro(? never could remember how to spell that) or the Consumer Affairs, and complain. Those 2 can make you give them their $$ back, and put a mark against you. 3 marks and you 'could' loose your business license.

Some asshole customers do this on purpose, for free work. In fact, a few years ago we caught a 'lovely, Bible reading couple' doing just this. We knew many of the shop owners, and called to warn them. Finally the couple left town (after their car got all fixed up for free from several shops), and knowbody else would work on it.

They came in complaining that WE called everyone. We actually said to them, "no more pretending to be "Godly Christians, and then ripping off folks" !!! "So get the hell outa here before we call the cops on you for trespassing" !!!

They were pissed off, and we just laughed at them as they drove off.

You see, an honest shop will bend over backwards to try and make things right. And they don't want the BBB or CA getting down on them, so they'll give up the parts and labor to try and make someone happy.
But we know a thief when we see one. And we follow the rules to the "T".

If you don't have a good shop/tech that you KNOW you can trust to not rip you off, keep looking. You CAN'T afford to get ripped.

Like was said in the first post, that elbow hose replacement is a 30-45 min job for a beginner. Not a $200 job.

Also, be careful of the dealerships. Ask around from customers, and shops you trust. The ones in my town are VERY big rip-offs. It's more the service writers than the techs. The writers get paid on commission (as most techs do too). The higher the bill, the more they make. AND, they are under alot of pressure to "get those tickets up there".

I worked at the Toyota dealer here for 4 years, as top tech, then shop foreman. I know the business very well. The $$ generated through the service dept at dealerships pays for all the over-head. The rent, laundry, lights, water, all insurance, etc.

The sales depts, new & used, pays for itself (salaries, bonuses, managers, advertising, porters, etc).

The parts dept pays its own way.

This is why every time you go to the service dept, it cost soooo much.

i.e.: Cadillac Northstar engine oil leak at the pan gasket on one of our customer's cars, dealer=$2000, us=$800.

So many examples of this ripoff I won't bore you.

So be careful where you go.

supratech · 04-03-2006, 04:28 AM

i am curently in the middle of my automotive apprenticeship, and i've seen a lot and know how this industry works...dishonesty is caused by a "mechanic" that can't make money by being honest, probably because he's lazy or has an addiction he needs to support...there are a lot of scummy people out there that will take advantage of naive people when given the opportunity...there are a few things you can do

1) get a second opinion
2) make friends with a tech (techs are suckers for beer)
3) use your common sense
4) ask questions on this forum
5) learn to do the work yourself, sometimes easier said than done, but it's worth it in the end

lethalwithasupra · 04-06-2006, 10:22 AM

Ok so all this " honest mechanic " crap ... sorry if it's too full of *itself* or long paragraphs ...

Customer comes in and asks what the dashlights on his van mean. Fuel, handbrake and altenator lights are on while it's runing. They had been comming on and off for a couple of days now, no other problems with the vehicle ( such as overheating from a missing fan belt ). Same-day service sort of thing cos he's a tourist and in a hurry. So I get the job of taking his van appart, the guy hangs out for a bit ( here the boss is fixing his 230V radio for free cos the guy seems cool. Couple other perks to getting his van fixed here. We're like that, multi-skilled and good guys ). Guy takes off on foot somewhere for the day. I take his altenator appart and notice the nice burnt diodes ( someone must've put the leads backwards when it was jump started for them all to go like that ). I take off in the work van to finish off a small mammoth job I started a couple days ago and my boss fixes the altenator and puts it beside the van. At the end of the day the guy comes back and I'm pulled off yet another job ( which was yet another walk-in, but a really good customer ) to put his alt back on. A very busy day or it would have been ready ages ago.

Stupid me doesn't put the belt on right and it flies off the pulley, gets crimped but not broken. Yea don't laugh too hard plz, I ain't happy with it. We can't find another belt for it same day, so we put the buggered belt back on temporary and ask him to come back tomorrow and appologise for all this *yet again*. He has to stay in town overnight. Next day he gets a new belt on URGENT delivery by nine the following am, supplied and fitted free of charge and with a another big fat appology.

Now here's the bit that slotts me off. He comes back, after telling me all is fine ( fuck I hate ppl who can't just say " this isn't good " ), he asks and asks to talk to my boss who was away on a callout. Apparently and you have to look at this from his " point of view " but, and he's " no mechanic, " but it seemed to him that my buggering his v-belt and the alt being buggered had the same symptoms. Therefore the alt was never faulty and the belt had smiply fallen off. And that was the only problem. Apparently I had missed the fact when I took the belt off to get the alt off .... And the boss also missed it when he did the diagnosis work. Right ...

Boss comes back in and tells me this arsehole told him *I* suggested the belt was the only thing wrong. Fucking retard. So I go and talk to him while the boss is hunting through the scrap for this guy's old rectifier and regulator, just to show the guy how visibly damaged they were. I end up explaining to him several times that both *his* fault and the one I caused had similar symptoms, but the guy just isn't listening. Keeps falling back to this stupid line " you have to look at this from my point of view, I'm no mechanic but it seems to me that ... " gist is that the altenator was fine, he isn't disputing that we put new parts in, or accusing us of ripping him off. Just wants to settle on the price, or he'll go get a second opinon and go to the cops if we have ripped him off. Single minded argumenting. Fuck the guy was pissing me off by the time the boss came back out to show him the old bits and point out that if he really wanted to rip the guy off he wouldn't have done a few other jobs for him for free or even taken the alt off the car cos that just took up time. If we really wanted to rip him off we're smart enough to do it well. plus the symptoms were different ( firstly the alt light only came on with the engine running, the other two lights were always on. With the belt being broken all lights were always on ).

Didn't come here intending to post this ... just saw the post and wondered if I'd gotten an answer for the AFM/TPS Q then got to thinking on how sometimes you're not actually being ripped off when you are. Or you're actually trying to rip off by accusing people of ripping you off. No acusations there, I'm just getting really angsty about people who want the earth but wont buy it.

Supratech's advice is good advice.
I'll add
6)only get your car worked on by a tradesman you think you can trust, and don't try to haggle, barter or browbeat after the damn job's done under quote. After all, half of the exchange is how we trust you. Give and take, or there's just no point helping you.

suprra_girl · 04-06-2006, 11:16 AM

i had a similar thing happen

a 2.8l turbo deisel van came in to get his exhaust leak fixed

exhaust leak was coming from the manifold

we spend about 2 hours removing manifold + turbo etc and find that the exhaust has been leaking for quite some time and blew holes in the gasket and started blowing holes in the manifold surface, also the manifold had been welded before trying to fix another hole (which started cracking)
we quoted him a mere $400nzd/300usd? to get the manifold machined flat again and new gasket and labour inclusive

we actually took the manifold & turbo up to show him what was wrong so he would understand

we then got it machined and all back together and now the exhaust leak is quiet as a mouse (cept for some engine noise which was there the whole time just couldn't hear it clearly due to the exhaust leak)

he pays for the job and takes his van away

the next day he comes down and says....

customer: i can't find the parts you put on, i lifted the passengers (left side of car) seat and everything, you didn't replace anything you just took my money and spent it on something else and didn't touch my car
that thing you showed me had way too many holes for my van and that turbo is way too big for my van

me: um, your van is quiet isn't it (i didn't say... umm your td03 or whatever is on mitsubishi delica vans is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too small for my car LOL)

customer: that doesn't matter you charged me way to much to fix fak all

me: now if you look under your drivers seat you will find that your manifold has been tank cleaned and welded

customer: no you haven't been under there, nothings moved

me: look, we did the job, your van no longer has an exhaust leak which you can clearly hear

customer: rant rant rant keeps going on about how we ripped him off

me: yea whatever dude, we did the job now please stop harassing us

that was about 6 months ago now... and gee, his van is still quiet as a mouse haha
we even told him to go to another mechanic and get them to check it, dunno if he ever did
told him he could ring the reconditioner shop we got it machined at and he said no i won't because he'll be a friend of yours and just tell me whatever you want him to

just one more example of a pig headed customer

scruffboy · 04-06-2006, 05:00 PM

O.K., it seems like you guys know what you are talking about and have been around, so tell me how I should handle a situation like this. I take my car in for major work (new water pump, clutch plate, clutch pump, etc) and I am given a written estimate. The work gets done in a timely fashion but they say they found something else and fixed that. Show's me the worn part and it looks legit, but adds rather large sum to bill. Shouldn't they have called me to O.K the work? What if I didn't have that kind of money on me? I told them to please call next time before doing extra work (politely) but they seem pissed. I even thanked them before for the nice job, just asked for a little professional courtesy in future. Am I wrong here?

Scruff.

01-05-2006, 02:31 AM	#11
mrnickleye 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, Calif. Posts: 1,705	here's a link on 'burping your baby' http://www.supras.com/06/techcenter/...0f95928a5c87c2 __________________ Had a Red 1989 N/A. Automatic. Sports Pkg. w/wing. TEMS, and some nice MODS. Sold to a friend 10/08/08.

03-19-2006, 07:10 AM	#12
Isphius 500whp yet? Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Long branch, NJ Posts: 1,006	There is plenty of honest mechanics, but the majority give the rest a bad name. i went to meinike for an alignment, And the guy came up to me and said, your car has a whole list of problems. And after i talked all the BS out of him(guess he realized i knew what i was talking about),they told me i needed a new power steering system and wheel bearings to get an alignment. And they wouldnt even let me in the bay to look at the car. they gave me a 450$ estimate to change the bearings, and said they couldnt even get the rack. And this is after a 2+ hour wait in line to get my car on a lift. So i basically gave meinike the finger and decided never to go back there. I took my car to a little shop by me, that my friend goes to, and the guy aligned my car for 70$. Drives perfectly straight, wheel isnt crooked, anything. shows what shopping around can do too. __________________ Yay the supra assistant is gone!!! WEEE!!

03-19-2006, 10:42 PM	#13
Troyota 3" Exhaust Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roswell, NM Posts: 73	Honestly, owning a Supra is a good way to learn how to work on a car. The Chilton's manual will tell you pretty much all you need to know. If you MUST take it to a mechanic, shop around...I usually take it to the dealership because at least one or two of the guys have been around long enough to have done some work on a 7m engine (if it gets the the point that I need to have someone else work on it, I've really messed something up!). They may charge you a bit more, but I think it's worth it to know that it's being worked on by someone who knows thier stuff. Now, I am ASE Certified (after I bought my Supra) and personally know all the techs at my local Toyota dealer so I would definitely trust them and sometimes call them up for advice. __________________ 1987 N/A MA70 Supra <--1JZ swap in progress 1986 AE86 GT-S Hatchback 2002 DC5 RSX Type S

03-26-2006, 09:39 AM	#15
lethalwithasupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: south cantebury Posts: 112	Just nosy but what is he trying to fix ? cos the Mass AFM and the TPS that sounds kinda odd. __________________ So I bought this old Honda bike, an NSR250. Bit of a street racer, I guess. I'm told they're fast. Delivering it home with a friend driving the Supra for the first time. I drop gears and make a scream from the twin pipes flowing down this pony's flanks and it takes off like it's tail's on fire. I look back when the Honda gets to its tap-out and the Supra's only two lengths behind. No one I've let ride my bike has told me its slow, they've all loved the thing. That car is a good thing indeed.

03-28-2006, 05:48 AM	#16
mrnickleye 1000whp postwhore Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, Calif. Posts: 1,705	Long, but informative post ^^true....both AFM & TPS bad seems strange. I manage a smog repair shop, so I see these kinds of problems every day, and if only 1 of those items is bad, the car will run bad, or not run at all. Those parts can be tested individually. Some shops/techs want to just replace parts, and not spend time to diagnose. Here in Calif. I can NOT charge ANY more $$$ (even if I installed the part, and it ran perfectly with it) until I get the approval of the customer FIRST. If I did do more than authorized, I can loose the $$ when the customer says he ain't paying it. Of course I can take the part off and put his bad one back on. Any customer can call the Better Business Beurro(? never could remember how to spell that) or the Consumer Affairs, and complain. Those 2 can make you give them their $$ back, and put a mark against you. 3 marks and you 'could' loose your business license. Some asshole customers do this on purpose, for free work. In fact, a few years ago we caught a 'lovely, Bible reading couple' doing just this. We knew many of the shop owners, and called to warn them. Finally the couple left town (after their car got all fixed up for free from several shops), and knowbody else would work on it. They came in complaining that WE called everyone. We actually said to them, "no more pretending to be "Godly Christians, and then ripping off folks" !!! "So get the hell outa here before we call the cops on you for trespassing" !!! They were pissed off, and we just laughed at them as they drove off. You see, an honest shop will bend over backwards to try and make things right. And they don't want the BBB or CA getting down on them, so they'll give up the parts and labor to try and make someone happy. But we know a thief when we see one. And we follow the rules to the "T". If you don't have a good shop/tech that you KNOW you can trust to not rip you off, keep looking. You CAN'T afford to get ripped. Like was said in the first post, that elbow hose replacement is a 30-45 min job for a beginner. Not a $200 job. Also, be careful of the dealerships. Ask around from customers, and shops you trust. The ones in my town are VERY big rip-offs. It's more the service writers than the techs. The writers get paid on commission (as most techs do too). The higher the bill, the more they make. AND, they are under alot of pressure to "get those tickets up there". I worked at the Toyota dealer here for 4 years, as top tech, then shop foreman. I know the business very well. The $$ generated through the service dept at dealerships pays for all the over-head. The rent, laundry, lights, water, all insurance, etc. The sales depts, new & used, pays for itself (salaries, bonuses, managers, advertising, porters, etc). The parts dept pays its own way. This is why every time you go to the service dept, it cost soooo much. i.e.: Cadillac Northstar engine oil leak at the pan gasket on one of our customer's cars, dealer=$2000, us=$800. So many examples of this ripoff I won't bore you. So be careful where you go. __________________ Had a Red 1989 N/A. Automatic. Sports Pkg. w/wing. TEMS, and some nice MODS. Sold to a friend 10/08/08.

04-03-2006, 04:28 AM	#17
supratech Stock Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Van Isle Posts: 8	i am curently in the middle of my automotive apprenticeship, and i've seen a lot and know how this industry works...dishonesty is caused by a "mechanic" that can't make money by being honest, probably because he's lazy or has an addiction he needs to support...there are a lot of scummy people out there that will take advantage of naive people when given the opportunity...there are a few things you can do 1) get a second opinion 2) make friends with a tech (techs are suckers for beer) 3) use your common sense 4) ask questions on this forum 5) learn to do the work yourself, sometimes easier said than done, but it's worth it in the end

04-06-2006, 10:22 AM	#18
lethalwithasupra 3" Exhaust Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: south cantebury Posts: 112	Warning, Rant To Follow . . . Ok so all this " honest mechanic " crap ... sorry if it's too full of itself or long paragraphs ... Customer comes in and asks what the dashlights on his van mean. Fuel, handbrake and altenator lights are on while it's runing. They had been comming on and off for a couple of days now, no other problems with the vehicle ( such as overheating from a missing fan belt ). Same-day service sort of thing cos he's a tourist and in a hurry. So I get the job of taking his van appart, the guy hangs out for a bit ( here the boss is fixing his 230V radio for free cos the guy seems cool. Couple other perks to getting his van fixed here. We're like that, multi-skilled and good guys ). Guy takes off on foot somewhere for the day. I take his altenator appart and notice the nice burnt diodes ( someone must've put the leads backwards when it was jump started for them all to go like that ). I take off in the work van to finish off a small mammoth job I started a couple days ago and my boss fixes the altenator and puts it beside the van. At the end of the day the guy comes back and I'm pulled off yet another job ( which was yet another walk-in, but a really good customer ) to put his alt back on. A very busy day or it would have been ready ages ago. Stupid me doesn't put the belt on right and it flies off the pulley, gets crimped but not broken. Yea don't laugh too hard plz, I ain't happy with it. We can't find another belt for it same day, so we put the buggered belt back on temporary and ask him to come back tomorrow and appologise for all this yet again. He has to stay in town overnight. Next day he gets a new belt on URGENT delivery by nine the following am, supplied and fitted free of charge and with a another big fat appology. Now here's the bit that slotts me off. He comes back, after telling me all is fine ( fuck I hate ppl who can't just say " this isn't good " ), he asks and asks to talk to my boss who was away on a callout. Apparently and you have to look at this from his " point of view " but, and he's " no mechanic, " but it seemed to him that my buggering his v-belt and the alt being buggered had the same symptoms. Therefore the alt was never faulty and the belt had smiply fallen off. And that was the only problem. Apparently I had missed the fact when I took the belt off to get the alt off .... And the boss also missed it when he did the diagnosis work. Right ... Boss comes back in and tells me this arsehole told him I suggested the belt was the only thing wrong. Fucking retard. So I go and talk to him while the boss is hunting through the scrap for this guy's old rectifier and regulator, just to show the guy how visibly damaged they were. I end up explaining to him several times that both his fault and the one I caused had similar symptoms, but the guy just isn't listening. Keeps falling back to this stupid line " you have to look at this from my point of view, I'm no mechanic but it seems to me that ... " gist is that the altenator was fine, he isn't disputing that we put new parts in, or accusing us of ripping him off. Just wants to settle on the price, or he'll go get a second opinon and go to the cops if we have ripped him off. Single minded argumenting. Fuck the guy was pissing me off by the time the boss came back out to show him the old bits and point out that if he really wanted to rip the guy off he wouldn't have done a few other jobs for him for free or even taken the alt off the car cos that just took up time. If we really wanted to rip him off we're smart enough to do it well. plus the symptoms were different ( firstly the alt light only came on with the engine running, the other two lights were always on. With the belt being broken all lights were always on ). Didn't come here intending to post this ... just saw the post and wondered if I'd gotten an answer for the AFM/TPS Q then got to thinking on how sometimes you're not actually being ripped off when you are. Or you're actually trying to rip off by accusing people of ripping you off. No acusations there, I'm just getting really angsty about people who want the earth but wont buy it. Supratech's advice is good advice. I'll add 6)only get your car worked on by a tradesman you think you can trust, and don't try to haggle, barter or browbeat after the damn job's done under quote. After all, half of the exchange is how we trust you. Give and take, or there's just no point helping you. __________________ So I bought this old Honda bike, an NSR250. Bit of a street racer, I guess. I'm told they're fast. Delivering it home with a friend driving the Supra for the first time. I drop gears and make a scream from the twin pipes flowing down this pony's flanks and it takes off like it's tail's on fire. I look back when the Honda gets to its tap-out and the Supra's only two lengths behind. No one I've let ride my bike has told me its slow, they've all loved the thing. That car is a good thing indeed. Last edited by lethalwithasupra; 04-06-2006 at 10:44 AM.

04-06-2006, 11:16 AM	#19
suprra_girl 7M POWAH! ;) Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,312	i had a similar thing happen a 2.8l turbo deisel van came in to get his exhaust leak fixed exhaust leak was coming from the manifold we spend about 2 hours removing manifold + turbo etc and find that the exhaust has been leaking for quite some time and blew holes in the gasket and started blowing holes in the manifold surface, also the manifold had been welded before trying to fix another hole (which started cracking) we quoted him a mere $400nzd/300usd? to get the manifold machined flat again and new gasket and labour inclusive we actually took the manifold & turbo up to show him what was wrong so he would understand we then got it machined and all back together and now the exhaust leak is quiet as a mouse (cept for some engine noise which was there the whole time just couldn't hear it clearly due to the exhaust leak) he pays for the job and takes his van away the next day he comes down and says.... customer: i can't find the parts you put on, i lifted the passengers (left side of car) seat and everything, you didn't replace anything you just took my money and spent it on something else and didn't touch my car that thing you showed me had way too many holes for my van and that turbo is way too big for my van me: um, your van is quiet isn't it (i didn't say... umm your td03 or whatever is on mitsubishi delica vans is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too small for my car LOL) customer: that doesn't matter you charged me way to much to fix fak all me: now if you look under your drivers seat you will find that your manifold has been tank cleaned and welded customer: no you haven't been under there, nothings moved me: look, we did the job, your van no longer has an exhaust leak which you can clearly hear customer: rant rant rant keeps going on about how we ripped him off me: yea whatever dude, we did the job now please stop harassing us that was about 6 months ago now... and gee, his van is still quiet as a mouse haha we even told him to go to another mechanic and get them to check it, dunno if he ever did told him he could ring the reconditioner shop we got it machined at and he said no i won't because he'll be a friend of yours and just tell me whatever you want him to just one more example of a pig headed customer __________________ Please use the forum to ask your questions as they will get replied to much faster than pming me Pics of my build. "Good girls are just bad girls that don't get caught" Do a diagnostic first!

04-06-2006, 05:00 PM	#20
scruffboy walbro fp Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kearny, New Jersey, USA Posts: 427	Professionals O.K., it seems like you guys know what you are talking about and have been around, so tell me how I should handle a situation like this. I take my car in for major work (new water pump, clutch plate, clutch pump, etc) and I am given a written estimate. The work gets done in a timely fashion but they say they found something else and fixed that. Show's me the worn part and it looks legit, but adds rather large sum to bill. Shouldn't they have called me to O.K the work? What if I didn't have that kind of money on me? I told them to please call next time before doing extra work (politely) but they seem pissed. I even thanked them before for the nice job, just asked for a little professional courtesy in future. Am I wrong here? Scruff. Last edited by scruffboy; 04-06-2006 at 05:56 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Good And Honest Mechanic	kidsusukigsxr	Shops & Part Reviews	4	02-16-2009 01:21 AM
Nedd honest opinion of value.	Isphius	MKIII Supra	3	05-08-2006 03:12 AM
Honest Opinions on NA's	suprafann	MKIV Supra	1	01-04-2006 07:51 AM